Women and Wealth: Overcoming the Investment Gap – Episode #486

Balancing a dental practice, a household (often with children), and a myriad of other duties can be a major challenge for women in dentistry. Investing, saving for retirement, and pursuing financial goals can get lost in the shuffle. On this Dentist Money Show, Matt, Victoria, and Megan explore the history of women’s financial rights and why women need to bridge the investment gap.

 

 

 

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Podcast Transcript

Matt Mulcock:
Okay, here we are. It is a woman’s history month for the month of March. Uh, March 8th is actually international woman’s day. I’m not totally sure when this is going to be released, but sometime around that date, we’ve got all of our technical difficulties out of the way, hopefully we’ve got Victoria here. We’ve got Megan here. Ladies. How are you?

Victoria Ferguson:
Good. Excited it’s Women’s History Month. So of course we had to come on and give ourselves a little spotlight and our female clients a spotlight. So here we are.

Megan Roderick (00:20.869)
Good. Thank you.

Matt Mulcock:
I know. Of course, I’m going to simultaneously call ourselves out while also patting ourselves on the back by saying, I think this is the first time we’ve done anything like content wise for International Women’s Month. Yeah.

Victoria Ferguson:
Well, I got one step back is like, why is this important to talk about at all? Right? Like beyond, beyond the fact that it’s, it’s a special month out of the year and a day out of the year, like why the heck do we even want to talk about this and bring this to light? And I think at least for dentists advisors, this is becoming more and more important because more females are graduating from dental school, the dental landscape is becoming more female. We’re seeing more female practice owners, graduates, all of the above. So we as a business need to meet those needs and be there for our female clients, meet them where they’re at. We’re going to talk about if money is different for women. It is. Spoiler alert there. It is. So we’ll talk about it. But I think that’s why at least for me, why it’s so important to talk about this in all spaces, not just female spaces because our client base is going to become more female. So that’s why we’re here.

Matt Mulcock:
That’s a good point. I think I read pretty recently that 60% of dental graduates are women, which is, yeah, somewhere in that range. So you’re totally right. It’s a super critical thing to be discussing and we figured what better time to talk about it than International Women’s Month. So

Victoria Ferguson:
Yes, I love it. Okay, well, I kind of want to start with like a history lesson because I don’t think people realize like, just how it wasn’t that long ago, certain things have happened. I think like we take it for granted in present day, that we’re able to have our own bank accounts and credit cards and buy our own houses when it wasn’t that long ago that women just straight up couldn’t. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
This actually kind of blew me away when we were talking about this before going on. So yeah, this is shocking.

Victoria Ferguson:
Totally. Yeah, yeah. So I’m not going to go into a deep dive on this, but just like a few key points in history that I’ll bring to light. First and foremost, 1963 Equal Pay Act passed and it required men and women to be paid equally. So that was what, like 60 years ago that they were like, yeah, we should probably be paying them the same. Right.

Matt Mulcock:
That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense to pay them equally for doing the same work. Yeah, seems rational.

Victoria Ferguson:
Like imagine being 30 and like, oh, now I get to like be paid equally. That’s so weird to me. But the next one is like even more shocking to me. 1974. So about 10 years later is when they like really started to get more serious about it. Cause 1963, it was like a, yeah, we probably should start paying you guys equally. But 74 was more of a monumental year. So equal credit opportunity act.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, that’s wild.

Victoria Ferguson:
It prohibited financial institutions from discriminating against applicants based on their sex, age, marital status, religion, race, or national origin. Basically, women could start building their own credit in their own name without permission from a spouse so they could get their own bank accounts fully and buy houses, take on debt by themselves, and open their own credit cards. So that was just 50 years ago.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, that’s pretty wild as well to think about. And it’s, and the fact that it took another 11 years after the equal pay act. So it’s like, oh, you can, for 10 or 11 years, you could be paid the same, but you couldn’t put it into an account in your own name. That’s pretty wild.

Victoria Ferguson:
Right, like imagine, I don’t know, I just think that’s so wild because like I wouldn’t be able to at this point, like without being married and having a spouse sign off on things. I literally would not be able to have my own bank account right now like life before all of this. So I don’t know, I think that was such a transformational year because women could finally buy their own houses and take on debt. And debt is like such a key tool in financial strategy and making progress and they just couldn’t do that before.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, this goes along, it’s actually interesting to think about this coming out of the 1950s, and prior to that, just the kind of like family structures that traditional family structure, right? Of, you know, generally husband works, wife stays at home. It was very, very 1950s. I do wonder, I don’t know this, but I’m just sitting here thinking of like, did the laws follow cultural changes or did cultural changes follow the laws? Right? Yeah, like I am curious. I would imagine, I’m guessing, not being like an expert in this field here or like the history of this, but I would guess that the cultural changes were happening before, like meaning, and that led to laws finally getting into place, or maybe it was kind of hand in hand.

Victoria Ferguson:
Ooh, like chicken or the egg?

Megan Roderick (07:34.496)
Right. We said here that technically women could open bank accounts in the 1960s, but they still had to have a signature from their husbands. So that might be playing into that a little bit of like, we’re going to give you a little taste, but not the whole thing and then see how people react a little bit like that. And then even 20 years later in 1993, they made it illegal to terminate women on medical leave for pregnancy, which probably goes right along with more women are now working. They’re getting pregnant. It took 20 years to then finally abolish that. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Victoria Ferguson:
Llike get to a place where you, yeah, where, yeah, it’s where you couldn’t be fired for being pregnant. Like Supreme Court was finally like, oh, okay, well, you can’t fire pregnant people. Like not cool. But that’s like 1993.

Megan Roderick (08:24.208)
Yeah. For being pregnant, yeah.

Victoria Ferguson:
Like how mind-blowing is that? Like that is really not that long ago. Like 30 years ago?

Matt Mulcock:
No, I mean, I that was that’s, you know, I was around for that. I remember I remember those days that the 90s were a good decade.

Victoria Ferguson:
God, do you remember Matt when the family and medical leave act was mad?

Matt Mulcock:
I remember when FMLA was enacted. It was a good year. It’s a momentous moment for sure. I was seven.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You were playing in the playground and was like, oh, did you hear about femla?

Matt Mulcock:
Yep. Yeah, I was like, guys, did you hear? Did you hear about FMLA? Yeah. Oh my gosh, it was amazing. So it is a good point Megan made of, and again, I’m guessing that cultural changes probably push more, push the laws more than the other way around. I think that’s kind of usually how it goes, right? Yeah. So there’s more pressure, more pressure put on the government, put on society.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah, it’s just, it’s crazy.

Megan Roderick (09:23.416)
I mean it goes like that now, I think a little bit. Yeah, it would make sense.

Matt Mulcock:
With these structural changes, again, coming out of the 50s into the 60s. And then it just kind of the laws kind of followed that. That makes sense. The culture kind of pushed the laws there.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah, to Megan’s point, that’s just what happens now. Like when has government ever been proactive? You know, I imagine, I guess to both of your points, I imagine in the 50s, like that left out a good chunk of women who weren’t married and they were like, what am I supposed to do? Right, so I’m sure like that population grew over time to the point where they’re like, okay, we need to give them like more power and more ability to move societally, otherwise they’re kind of just stuck in their parents’ house.

Matt Mulcock:
Totally. So here’s my question. And then we can kind of move. I know there’s another one we want to hit, kind of getting more modern day. This is fascinating to me. I’m genuinely just curious on this. So in 74, the Equal Opportunity Credit or the Equal Credit Opportunity Act. So I’m proud of that point. And again, maybe you don’t know this, but women truly could not have credit in their name or was it just this law made it and put it in place where banks couldn’t deny women credit. So, cause those are two different things, right? Like, did it make it illegal for a bank to deny women a credit card or having credit? Is that what it was? Cause I’d imagine that if not, it would be possible to your point, it would have been possible or theoretical that like banks would have still offered women credit cards, but they just have the ability to deny them if they wanted to. Does that make sense?

 

Victoria Ferguson:
Yes, so before this, yeah, they could but 74 made it illegal to deny someone based off of depending, yeah, which it probably wasn’t all that progressive.

Matt Mulcock:
But I would imagine not, but I’d imagine like, let’s say like in New York or the bigger cities tend to be more progressive. Um, I would, I was just wondering if it was like straight up women just could not get credit or. Okay. Sure.

 

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah, no, it’s not like it was illegal for women to get credit. It’s just like banks wouldn’t and they like women could have credit, but it had to be attached to a spouse. So only married women were getting credit before this in some capacity. But then 74, uh, equal credit opportunity act made it illegal to deny someone off of that. Yep. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
Got it. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay.

Victoria Ferguson:
So I guess kind of staying on the same vein of credit, 2012, FINRA, good old FINRA. What does that stand for Matt? Financial institutions, national, isn’t it financial regulatory something, some financial government bureaucracy.

Matt Mulcock:
Oh man, holy cow, you’re gonna call me out. I’m… No, I’ll tell you. I gotta…

Megan Roderick (12:32.04)
Financial Industry Regulatory Authority.

Matt Mulcock:
And just, she beat me to it.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yes, Megan. Thank you. See, go women. You know, we’re just, we’re faster.

Megan Roderick (12:38.28)
Welcome. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
She beat me to it. I’m not, yeah, I’m not shocked by that. At International Women’s Month, it’s like, of course. Yeah, of course you did. You do, I think you do. Yeah.

Victoria Ferguson:
Of course she did.

Megan Roderick (12:46.856)
I have like extra powers during March. It’s like I’m faster, I’m smarter, all the things.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, Matt, like you probably don’t know this, but on the full moon in March, like all the women kind of like gather, and now that we’ve told you, we actually have to kill you. So. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
Oh gosh, what am I learning here?

Megan Roderick (13:04.888)
Yeah, it’s a big thing. I’m surprised you haven’t heard of it.

Matt Mulcock:
I have not heard of this, yeah. Okay.

 

Victoria Ferguson:
more interest on their credit cards. And so another great, what was it, what did I say? Like half a percent or something, which is insane because more men have credit card debt than women do, which maybe this is my biases, but I thought that would be reversed just based on all of like you know, societal norms, stereotypes. I for sure thought it was gonna be, like I fall for biases all the time, but nope, it’s men. 57% of that is men, so.

Matt Mulcock:
Okay. So you’re saying a July, 2022 financial health network study found that 54% of women reported having credit card debt and 57% of men that does surprise me. I will be honest.

Victoria Ferguson:
Oh, that was 22. Uh huh. Yeah. More men have credit card debt. Oh, are we jerks? I think we’re jerks. I think we’re sexist. But yeah, so even though men have more credit, more men than women have credit card debt, women were found to be being charged more for interest. So yay, love that for us.

Matt Mulcock:
Maybe we are just being sexist. OK, so we have come a long way, is what we’re saying. In.

Victoria Ferguson:
We have come a long way in, I guess, a short-ish amount of time, but it still baffles me. I try to think about my life right now and how that would be just 30, 40, 50 years ago, and I truly can’t imagine it.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, but it is truly, it is really cool to see. And you’re right. I mean, on one hand, we’re sitting here saying, wow, this is so crazy. This was not that long ago, but now you look at it. The flip side of that, in my opinion, is how much progress we have made in this short amount of time. We just highlighted that let’s say 50, I think it’s somewhere in the ballpark of 55 to 60% of dental graduates are women. So it’s incredible. Like that, that is amazing. The progress we’ve made in again a relatively short period of time.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah. Oh, for sure. No, I mean, Megan and I get to benefit off of all the women who worked so tirelessly to make this happen, right? And I just happened to be born after of all the hard work was done. So I think that’s part of why we’re here on the podcast is to kind of honor that and say thank you to all those shout out to all the previous women. Yeah. So that Megan and I could have our own credit cards and

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. Shout out to the, to the more seasoned ladies out there. Yeah.

Megan Roderick (15:49.916)
Cause I need that. I love a good credit card. Thank you so much.

Victoria Ferguson:
Bank accounts? Yeah, we do. Yeah, we feel blessed. Especially when Megan takes me on a shopping trip. But that’s neither here nor there. Then the credit card. Yeah, correct.

Megan Roderick (16:03.352)
Still have less credit card debt, still less. Just remember that. Your shopping trips are not as big as men’s apparently.

Matt Mulcock:Matt (16:06.617)
It’s true. It’s true. It’s true.

Victoria Ferguson:
Apparently and we know girl math right? It’s an investment buying the Levi jeans gonna last you like decades Right, like I’m gonna pass these down to my baby

Matt Mulcock:
Totally. Okay. Just while we’re on the topic of shopping, um, again, I don’t want to fall prey to stereotypes, but international women’s month, we’re going to talk some shopping. Uh, you brought it up. Uh, I will say just really quick, my view on, um, quality over quantity or quality clothes and spending more money on clothes has completely changed over the last probably five, 10 years for me, uh, like this is something that my 22 year old self, 25 year old self would beat me up for saying. But I totally get that now. I have clothes that I’ve spent would be considered expensive. Again, my old self would say, holy cow, you spent that much money on a pair of pants or a workout shirt. But holy cow, it makes a big difference. And if you start breaking down the cost per use, the fact that it lasts so long, it actually ends up being, I mean, I know you’re joking sort of about it being an investment, but it ends up being free. Exactly, it’s basically free.

Victoria Ferguson:
I’m actually thrilled that you just said this because women have been doing this for years. Like the cost per wear, like I don’t know how long you’ve been doing that, mate. I feel like I’ve been doing that like since I can remember. Like that was taught to me by my mom and it’s like, oh look, like if you bought, sure this is expensive, but if you wear that pair of jeans, like at least once a week for 10 years, then it’s free.

Matt Mulcock:
I’m just coming around to it. Yep. I mean, I wouldn’t say it’s free, but yes, I do. I do think it’s basically free. If we’re factoring in inflation and discount cashflow rates, like, yeah, it’s totally free. Um, girl math, see, I’m just, I’m in. I feel like I’m in. This is true. I have not. Um, but I, I know I’m March is the month I’m watching the Barbie movie. I’m committed to that.

Victoria Ferguson:
It’s not, it’s, come on, women’s man. Girl math, I like this. Matt, welcome to the club. I think you made it. Except you still haven’t watched the Barbie movie, so you have to in March.

Megan Roderick (18:18.209)
You need to get on that.

Victoria Ferguson:
Are you committing to that on the podcast?

Matt Mulcock:
I am on the on live on air, not live but on air. I’m committing to it. So okay, so next part of this Victoria and Megan, we wanted to talk about how money is different for women how investing in money is different for women.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah, and I guess before we jump in, just to quickly wrap it up, I think the part of the reason why I all no, we can talk the rest of this about shopping if we want like Megan’s got all Oh my gosh, if anyone ever needs shopping tips on any kind of product, Megan is your girl. I don’t know how or why she has a product for literally everything. She saved my high knee so many times. Hey, it’s great quality.

Megan Roderick (19:05.392)
I don’t know if that’s a good quality to have or a bad quality, but I have it. I do. I have it. Yeah. Everything I buy is free. So it’s fine. It’s all free. Yeah. So I’m great.

Matt Mulcock:
I think you’re always prepared. That’s a good quality to have.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah. We’ll do a whole episode on girl math. I would agree. You buy it and you return it, you made money. No, I mean, I think part of the reason why I bring up history is because a lot of that feeds into the stereotypes that live today, right? Like, you know, the whole women are not

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, that’s all. It’s all free. It’s all free.

Victoria Ferguson:
as good with money or I mean even us, like the three of us were surprised to learn that more men carry credit card debt than women. Like.

Matt Mulcock:
And I would say most people I think would be surprised by that. Yeah.

Victoria Ferguson:
Totally, right? So all of the, you know, through the decades, that absolutely plays a role, but what people don’t realize is like, women just got started in this space. Like women just started investing, like seriously, not that long ago, and we still have so much progress to make in that space. So of course all these stereotypes exist and like views about, or negative views about women and money because we just we’re able to get credit cards 50 years ago. Like, of course we’re like not as like far. Sorry, make.

Megan Roderick (20:17.648)
Which, yeah, a lot of them might be true. I mean, it’s like, of course, women might not be as good with money because they didn’t have the opportunity to invest and to get a credit card. So the fact that we’ve been able to, and now are better at handling debt, better at investing in a shorter amount of time, it doesn’t have anything to do with, are we better or are we worse? It’s just, we didn’t have as much time to, yeah, to get there.

Victoria Ferguson:
We had a late start.

Megan Roderick (20:47.088)
So it is cool to see how far we have come in such a short time.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah. Well, let’s stick to the investing piece like you just said there. So women are half as likely than men to invest, which is unfortunate. And we can chat about reasons why we think this is, but ultimately what I think is really amazing about this is when we do invest, we are dang good at it. We outperform men on it. I’ve seen different ranges, but it typically is 0.5% to 1%. We outperform men. So even though we’re like not as many of us invest, we’re really good at it.

Megan Roderick (23:20.388)
I think before I got into this industry, I said, why would I invest? I’m kind of a pessimist. I’m kind of a doomsdayer, I’d say. I’d be like, am I gonna even live to retirement? What’s the point? Why do I wanna retire with a bunch of money? Like I’d rather spend that money and then if I die, I die. But now I’m more educated. I’m in this space. I love investing now. But I mean, I just thought of that. That’s what I thought and I wasn’t educated. And that’s not cause I was a woman. That was just cause I was naive. Now I’m very educated and go investing. Now do you love it?

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah, no, Matt, before we hopped on this, we were, Megan and I were chatting and she’s like, what, I don’t think I’m living till 65. Like, what do you mean?

Megan Roderick (24:08.328)
I know, the world’s ending. I’m a doomsdayer. I am. But I still want to save for retirement. No, yeah. Yeah, that’s just mine.

Matt Mulcock:
Oh, okay, well, if the world ends and that has nothing to do with being a woman. That’s just your approach to life. Okay, that’s just me.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah, yeah. She’s our in-house doomsdayer and conspiracy theorist.

Matt Mulcock:
We’re going to meet we’re going to meet separately. I just I’m genuinely curious about where this doomsday outlook comes. I just would love to know the origins of that.

Megan Roderick (24:36.024)
Yeah, just in case it doesn’t happen, which I do believe it will, the end of the world zombies, the whole thing, just in case it doesn’t, I do want to be prepared and have retirement funds. But just in case, just in case I do live to 65.

Matt Mulcock:
Okay. Got it, got it. Do you think zombies are gonna care if that happens about the size of your 401k balance or probably not?

Megan Roderick (24:56.392)
No, I don’t. And that’s why I’m saying I’d rather spend a lot of money on a cement box in the ground than on my 401k. That was before.

Victoria Ferguson:
We, you know what, we need a… Can we, can we just do a separate episode where we just interview Megan about who she is and how, like, truly anyone’s really lucky to know her.

Megan Roderick (25:09.016)
I was prior to dentist advisors. I’ve learned so much since being here. Yeah. I have no science behind my theories, I just think them. It’s just in my head, I think it, and I say, that’s probably right.

Victoria Ferguson:
That’s why we need to interview you.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, I’m just learning more and more literally right here on the podcast. I did not know this about you, Megan. So this is, this is good. Yeah, this is yes, we’re going to new character. I love this.

Victoria Ferguson:
She’s gonna be a great character moving forward on the podcast. New character unlocked! Absolutely. Okay, but go, okay, your point about being, not making it till 65. The odds are, Megan, we’re gonna live longer than men. So let’s get to that point. Unless the zombies… Oh, you’re right.  So I often think kind of to your point, Matt, the financial industry was built by men and for men in mind, like this idea of retiring at a certain age, they weren’t considering the fact that women last longer. Like they were looking at it like, oh, you know, a man’s gonna retire at 65 and probably lived for like another 10 years. Well, what’s the average age? Like 72 for men in the US, and I think it’s like 78 for women, something like that.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, I think there’s two different things. There’s like the probability, like there’s the average life expectancy. And then there’s like the probabilities of living. So there’s two different numbers there, but I think you’re right. I want to say it’s like early to mid. Oh, there you go. Megan’s got it.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah. Oh, sure. Oh, but basically my point is like that idea of like the traditional retirement age was also kind of sent around the idea that you would die sooner versus like women who are going to live longer. And most women, I think it’s like 80% of women like die alone. And so we’re outliving, we need to make our money last longer. However, we’re retiring with two thirds as much money big problem to have. We need women to be investing. We need them to get invested in the markets because one, we’re really good when we do it and two, we like actually need it to be able to survive in our sunset years.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. And I would also, there’s another aspect of this too, because when you talk about, uh, I mean, I agree with everything you just said, but when you talk about the fact, like women retire with two thirds, um, as much as men, I take that as assuming like a woman retiring single, right? Let’s say not in, not in a relationship is a, I’m guessing, or even if that’s not the case, even if that’s not the case, I think there’s another aspect of this of just being involved.

Victoria Ferguson:
I don’t know. I think it’s like. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
in the process through the journey of investing because you also don’t ever know what is going to happen. And so even prior to these facts or these stats around women living longer, even prior to that, again, you just never know. And I don’t think you ever want to be caught in a situation where life flips on you for whatever reason. It could be a divorce or a debt, like your spouse dies. I think there’s a lot of factors to consider why you’d want to be, be educated and feel empowered to be involved in this process. We talk about this all the time with our clients where if it is not always the case, a lot of times we have situations where the woman is kind of that leading relationship with us and they’re kind of making the decisions on behalf of the family. But it happens a lot on the flip side where the man is the one kind of running the show on that. And there are situations where.

We’ll go several meetings without even meeting the, the spout, the, the woman. Right. And we encourage all the time, Hey, let’s bring her into this conversation. Not even for this end game of like, Hey, she might live longer than you. It’s Hey, we want to have her empowered and be involved in these conversations.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah, which I guess, again, like I don’t blame women because this industry wasn’t built for them and it’s pretty intimidating, you know? So I like, I get it, but that shouldn’t stand in the way of you getting involved and knowing, you know, knowing what’s going on. And I didn’t grab stats on this one, but maybe, I know, dang it, you guys. I, there was one study that I like, read once and I can’t bring it up here, but women tend to be more like short-term view with their money. So women, if they’re going to be involved with their finances, are more so on like the budgeting side and the day-to-day maintenance of their finances. Whereas typically a man’s going to be more involved in like the investing and long-term type of financial planning. And I feel like I can kind of back this up with some of my clients just anecdotally, typically if I’m working with a couple, that’s oftentimes that’s a good chunk of the, how do you call it, the climate, how they operate is she’s usually more so the day to day knows the spend, yeah, exactly, the spending, she knows what things cost and all of that, whereas the husband typically doesn’t, but he’s.

Matt Mulcock:
That’s usually the setup that they have.

Victoria Ferguson:
What I hear all the time is like, oh, like he does the investing. Like he manages that and she just kind of stays out of it.

Megan Roderick (32:21.688)
I think that’s how I feel like I operate firsthand in my marriage. I think that’s how we kind of divide things up. But I do think after I got involved with our personal finances and our personal investing, like it really did open up a lot of conversations that we had not had previously and also questions that I was asking myself, like, do you really think you’re going to live to 65? It is encouraging seeing that and knowing a lot about it, it makes me a lot more excited for retirement, living till retirement. It’s like, okay, like, it doesn’t sound so bad. Like, I think that’s, I think it’s good. I think, I think learning about it and actually being aware of where your money’s going and how it’s growing is so empowering. And it, it just makes me want to stay involved, live 78 years longer than men, live to 90, 100. Why not bring it on? I’ll live forever.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah. That will be crusty. Let’s do it.

Matt Mulcock:
Megan, that’s such a, sorry, Victoria, you go. That’s such a good point. I love that you just said that because I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having one person kind of fill a regular role on one end and then the other person filling the regular role on the other, whatever that may be. I think it’s pretty common what you’re describing around having like the woman running the day-to-day stuff and then the man running the law. I think that’s, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, but I love what you just said. Megan, of just saying, getting more like, we encourage people and here’s kind of a call to action in this kind of section we’re talking about is we even though, even if the man is running in your relationship, kind of the again, the regular investing, right, they’re more involved on a regular basis. It is critical to get the other spouse involved to get the woman involved. I think for again, for various reasons, but you just said the biggest one, it opens up conversations that you previously wouldn’t have had. The other part of this, I think, is it creates balance in the investment strategy and like the financial plan. If it’s just one person doing it, man or woman, and the other one’s not involved. I think that leads to a lot of possible imbalance and a lot of like shocking discoveries if all of a sudden something negative, negative happens. Victoria, you talked about this on a previous podcast. Heck yes, you do.

Victoria Ferguson:
I have a stat for that. I need to start making swag around that. So I have a stat for that, I usually do. So 74% of women have a negative surprise when they kind of come into their money after like letting their spouse manage it. So this is either through divorce or becoming a widow, 74% of those women have a shocking surprise and they had no idea that something was going on. So odds are if you’re not involved in that space, and also I feel like it goes both ways. I think if you’re divvying that up, one spouse is more day-to-day and the other is more long-term, be involved on both sides of it. It’s not just him like he should also very much have awareness around the spending right because if spending’s out of line then that’s going to throw off your long term investing like entirely so you need to be checking in with each other and also 78% of couples who talk about money report being happy told you I have a stat for everything.

Megan Roderick (36:03.401)
I also think, not even just with your spouse, like I know with my friends and it’s like after I got involved, I’m like, this is like kind of interesting and I feel confident like saying to my sisters, I was thinking about a talk I had with my sister-in-law where she’s like, oh, I have all this money in my bank account. I don’t know what to do with it. And I’m like, oh, like put it in a high yield savings account, put it in a brokerage account, like I’m earning a lot of money. And it’s like, I feel confident saying that because I know firsthand like what is going on and like where my money is going. Talk about it. It’s so good to talk about it.

Victoria Ferguson:
I got you girl

Matt Mulcock:
Totally. Yeah. Talking about it, I think is the biggest key and Victoria, that’s a great point of saying that goes both ways. You should just be having regular conversations with your spouse. And again, it’s totally fine divvying up those, those regular duties or whatever, but talking about it on a regular basis is the key. And I will say, we’ve heard this so many times having a third party involved in some way as well. There’s been so many times we’ve had these conversations with couples, where we start having these discussions and start asking questions and bringing these things up. And it leads to conversations that they will literally say, I’ve heard this so many times, oh my gosh, we’ve never talked about this, or I’ve never heard you say this, having a third party involved, it’s objective, that’s, that’s kind of emotionally removed, um, to help both parties feel involved and empowered, I think is, is huge.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yes, where Megan and I just experienced this firsthand with a lot of people was at Mommy Dentist and Business around like a core values exercise. And later on, a couple of the women told me that they ran this exercise like with their spouses, like separately. And these are women who’ve been married like decades or like a significant amount of time. And they’re like, yeah, I had no idea like what my spouse’s core values were, and they had no idea what mine were. And so I look at it as an opportunity to just deepen your relationship and like build that trust and like work on this together. It’s your joint money, and this is what you’re gonna rely on in retirement. This is how you live your best life or your rich life, I should say, Matt. And so like make it a team effort, right? So.

Matt Mulcock:
Absolutely. Love it. So speaking of what Megan just said, you had a stat here about women holding or being more likely to hold cash. Is that true?

Victoria Ferguson:
Oh, yes, I was not very happy to see that, but that also makes sense. Um, before I was in this role, I was at another company and I exclusively worked with women. And something I heard like pretty much every day is I don’t know enough about investing to do it. Or I don’t know enough about X. Like I need to know, I need to know. And so what tends to happen with women is they will stockpile their cash. And just because they don’t like, women are saving, like we are, but we’re just not investing it. And so, you know, out of intimidation or fear of getting it wrong or imposter syndrome, what have you, what they don’t realize is that’s really expensive to hold on to cash. But what’s the, what is the stat that I have? Isn’t it like 74%? Where did I put it? Like hold it in cash.

Matt Mulcock:
On the on the cash. There was no numbers that you had put there. You just said they’re more likely to hold on to higher levels of cash, which again anecdotally Megan is highlighting perfectly an example in her own life of where that That is the case

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah, yeah, I want to say it was like 71% versus like 50% of men or something like that. But it’s, it’s a significant amount of just like holding cash. And so what I said to the lovely ladies at Mommy Dennis in Business is if you, I’m grabbing this example from Sally Krawcheck at L of S, she used to say this all the time. If you had a hole in your purse and it was dropping $20 a day. How long would it take you to get it fixed? It’s like effectively and like kind of a great visual for not investing because not investing is so expensive, but people don’t realize that because it’s not like a thing. It’s not tangible. So I usually tell women is imagine there’s a hole in your bag and it’s just dropping 20 bucks of cash every single day. How long are you gonna wait? So what I…

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, I love that example.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah, and what I’d always say to women too is you don’t need to know anything about investing to get started. You really don’t. You just need to start. And that’s honestly what men do really well. You know, like they’re investing early and often. Where they get it wrong is they get a little jittery in their seat and they tinker. So that’s what men can learn from women. But what women can learn from men is just getting started and not holding high. Yeah, take the leap. Just get started because that’s better than waiting. So yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, that’s a good point. I think men are more likely to, and again, we want to be careful like stereotyping across the board, but I think the data backs this up, right? Where I think men are more likely to be okay, taking these risks and just jumping in and investing. And I like what you said, like that is something women can learn from men, where you just get started and get started with something that is minimal that you don’t feel like that you feel comfortable, quote unquote, losing. Just to get that experience because a lot of times you’re going to learn the most from like you can read as much as you want. You can get on YouTube. You can do all that. But the most you’re going to learn is from actual experience of feeling what it’s like to actually jump in and invest and see the ups and downs of the market.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah, yeah, totally. But ultimately if women did start investing as early as men did and as aggressively as men did, we would be making leaps and bounds of progress because we stay in our seat. We don’t tinker. Men are more likely to, we are better investors. And the reason for that is we don’t, I think in down markets or volatile markets,

Matt Mulcock:
They’re better investors when you actually do start.

Victoria Ferguson:
Men are more likely to withdraw money from the markets and change their right of time things. Whereas women typically, according to studies, will just keep contributing even though the markets are volatile. So that’s what they are absolutely winning at.

Matt Mulcock:
Try to time things. Yep.

Megan Roderick (42:45.756)
What do you think is the solution to that? I mean, why do you think as women we don’t do that? Is it because we’re not talking about it? Do you think it’s men are talking about it with their peers and women aren’t, and they’re not, do they not trust each other? Do they not trust, what do you think it is, and what do you think the call to action is, I guess, of we should be doing this, and we should be encouraging others to do it as well? Because I mean, you know the effects of it. You’re giving all these stats, and it’s like as a woman, I think, and I think as a mom, like I would love, I’m not a mom, when I will be a mom, hopefully, God willing, I would want to teach that to my kids, you know, I think, and telling my friends and seeing a positive response or a positive outlook is encouraging for me. I mean, I think in the world of influencers, like, there needs to be, I’m sure there are women influencers out there telling people to do that, but I’m highly impacted by my friends and the women that I trust in my life. So it’s like, I wanna be someone to tell people to do it. It’s like, I know it works, I’m gonna go tell people to do it. I think it’s good to just talk about it and like talk about the positive effects that you have seen.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah, well, and to your question, I think there’s a huge variety of reasons why women don’t. Definitely this whole idea of like, I don’t know enough, like I don’t know if it’s women put more pressure on themselves to like, get it right and be perfect with it, and need to know everything about something before necessarily jumping in. Women typically are more like risk aware. They’re not necessarily like risk averse, but they take more time trying to figure out like all the risks before jumping in. Yeah.

Megan Roderick (44:42.3)
I mean, it is scary. I totally get it. It is scary feeling like you’re not picking the right things or you’re not investing in the right things. Like you hear different strategies every day. If you do get into that world, like you hear different things and it’s like, who do you trust? Like, are they on my side? Are they not on my side? Like, I think picking someone that you trust and taking their advice or do you just take a leap of faith and go and invest in whatever you feel like sparks joy? I don’t know. Like, what do you what do you do? Yeah.

Victoria Ferguson:
Marie Kondo this. Well, you actually bring up a really good point. I think part of the reason, absolutely a contributing factor, is only 14% of financial professionals are women. Like, you know, I think that’s scary to go up to like really anybody that you don’t feel safe talking about this with. I mean, money is so personal. It’s so intimate. It’s like really hard to open up about it, like figure out if you’re doing the right thing, especially if you’ve siloed yourself and you’ve mostly just done your own research and you’re not talking to your friends about it. Like going up to a dude in a suit, like to get some help, you’re not gonna do that, right? Like women typically feel more comfortable speaking to another woman because we can relate to each other a lot more. There’s just a more likely immediate like sense of comfort with that. But unfortunately, there’s only 14% of advisors are women. And then you look at the certified financial planner professionals, I don’t know, what is it, Matt? Isn’t it like, it’s bad. So, I get it. Like it’s already hard enough to come into the space because it wasn’t made for you. And okay, I wanna take the leap and get some help. And women are actually more likely to reach out for help than men are.

Matt Mulcock:
It’s like single digits, I think.

Victoria Ferguson:
but okay, I want help, but I can’t find a female advisor. Like that’s frustrating. And on top of that, like women are busy, like they’re moms and if they’re not moms, they’re busy with their friends and their personal lives. Like this is hard to come to and like actually get involved with this. So I guess I say all that to say, I understand. Like that makes sense to me, why it’s been put off for a lot of women, why cash is piling up, but-

Ultimately, this is gonna hurt them. And the best way you’re gonna make progress is just to take the next, just one step at a time and whatever that means to you, whether that’s going on social media or content page, shout out, and learning there. And so, like and subscribe. But truly, like whatever. like meet yourself where you’re at. Like if an advisor, even if like I’m too scary, that’s fine. Like I’m not, I’m 5’4 and tiny. But yeah, aren’t we like the same? Yeah, we’re like 5’4.

Matt Mulcock:
It’s so scary. So scary.

Megan Roderick (47:45.237)
She could maybe beat you in a race, but she definitely couldn’t beat you up.

Victoria Ferguson:
I might be able to outrun you if there’s a zombie chasing us. I certainly can outrun Matt, but yeah, I mean, like if that’s too scary, like what’s one thing that you can do today to like help your financial well-being? Yes, yes.

Megan Roderick (48:02.348)
Yeah, one step is better than no steps.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, I mean, there’s excellent points and it’s a great question, Megan. I think you highlighted it, Victoria, that this is still very much a man’s world in the investing space. It just is. We’re still catching up. I mean, we’ve talked about all this progress that’s being made just generally across the country and across the world, right? Of course. But if we’re talking specifically around investing, financial planning, this space specifically is still very much a man’s space. There’s no question about that. And it’s getting better. It’s over, you know, it’s getting better and better. And so Megan, to your point, I think talk, having conversations like this hopefully help. I think, so one thing I will say, this is so as a company, right. We, we established a purpose statement for our business. We answering the question, why are we in business? And the answer we came up with was to connect, educate and empower. And I think those three things are what answers your question in my opinion, is connecting with other women, educating yourself and getting and empowering each other to, to start taking some action. And by the way, action doesn’t necessarily mean, Hey, go set up an account and go jump in, I think that would be helpful, but it might just be like, Hey, take a step and go talk to someone, uh, bring up the commerce, attend a webinar, like start educating yourself.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah, attend a webinar.

Matt Mulcock:
I will tell you one thing that is not lacking in this and almost negatively to the point now, which is information. And so that almost is maybe more intimidating. I think the best thing to do, and this comes down to a stat, Victoria, you also have in here, is asking a professional, find someone you can trust. And so you would put in here that women are much more likely than men to ask for advice, right? To actually get help. And they value the advice. And so I would say as a next step, it could just be, go find someone you can trust to start having a conversation. And just, just begin there. Just take one step, like you said, towards doing it. Um, realizing that, yeah, it’s definitely a man’s world, but it’s getting better. Uh, but again, that connect, educate and empower, I think is the probably the answer there.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah, I agree. And I mean, just even thinking back to like female spaces that Megan and I have been in, like once the women get going about their money, it’s like magic. Like they start like talking about like their practices and like, oh yeah, like my CPA did it this way, or oh, I have a story for you, or referrals. Like women are way more likely to refer than men are. So good chances are like your female friends, probably like know someone that they trust and they rely on. So having the conversation, opening up about it, you’d be surprised. Like you don’t have to be siloed. You don’t have to do the research on your own. Like if your first step is just talking to your friends about it, that is a great step. Like that is a perfect, perfect step. Exactly, like even just getting into the habit of talking about it. Like I love talking to my girlfriends career and money and what we’re saving for. It’s like, it’s so fun. Like it’s really great. Yes.

Megan Roderick (51:25.6)
It kind of makes girl math make sense. Like if you’re educated about it, girl math makes sense. And I do think like the more positive experiences you have, the more likely you are to share. I feel like you either hear the really bad or the really good, but you take that for what it is. And I think if you’re willing to share, others are also willing to share. If you just ask, if you ask them, they probably have some kind of tip or some kind of advice to give, which is…

Matt Mulcock:
Or just a shared experience where you feel empowered. You don’t feel as intimidated by it. If you’re thinking it, if you have the question, most likely a lot of other people do as well. By the way, we’re facilitating this as we speak with mastermind groups, right? And so we have our first ever, the first mastermind group we did was a woman only mastermind group. I think we have eight or 10 women run by Dr. Michelle Jorgensen. She’s incredible. And we’re going to be doing more of these things. Uh, and then obviously we’re going to hit here at the end, Victoria, what, what you’re doing as well at our summit. Um, and so we’re, we’re helped, we’re trying to do our best in our part of facilitating this kind of stuff with the, you know, the, the small.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah. Creating like safe spaces for women to be able to open up. And I just want to highlight something that you said, Megan, like by you sharing and speaking up, you’re probably empowering someone else to do the same. Like, you know, talk about it and share stories and refer folks for your own good, of course, but also know like when you do that, it like it has a ripple effect, then other women are going to want to do the same thing. So do it for you, but also do it for womankind Do it for all whoops, it’s how we get better Because I guess last point here that I think is really, I don’t know exciting for me, but Just just interesting overall is this great wealth transfer have either of you heard of this.

Matt Mulcock:
Do it for all women. Yeah, exactly.

Megan Roderick (53:07.215)
Mm-hmm. That’s how we progress. Yep.

Matt Mulcock:
Yes, the numbers are unbelievable. It’s like hard to even fathom.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah, yes. So what people don’t realize is, you know, baby boomers are going to start passing away at higher rates and most of the money will be inherited by women. And so over the next 10, 20 years, we are going to see a massive, massive shift in like how money is controlled in the US. And so I think, let’s see, stats that I have. By 2030, so what six years from now, American women will manage at least 30 trillion dollars, which is more than the national GDP. Right? And Gen X will receive some, but the much larger millennial generation. Hey yo. What is your record? Sorry, Megan, not you. So, millennial women are gonna end up with most of it. And as we know, women view and use money differently. And so I’m really excited to see like how that’s going to influence really everything in this country. Because when you have money, you have power and women use it differently. Like I, from I guess I think that more women are going to like become business owners, we’re going to see more practice owners, all of that. We already are at a higher rate. But when women-owned businesses, they tend to hire more women than men hire women. So we’re going to have more women working and making money. So then they’re going to have more control of it. So I am just really curious and excited to see how the next 20 years go.

Matt Mulcock:
Well, and I think this speaks even again, this kind of is a double down of what we’re just talking about, of like the importance, how critical it is to be educated, right, to educate yourself, to start like taking action now. Uh, if you are again, if you’re specifically, if you’re a millennial woman, if you’re in this kind of age range, uh, how critical it is to be thinking about this, to be taking action, educating yourself, connecting with other women, having these conversations. I mean, again, this shows you right now how important this is.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah, yep, which is why we’re talking about it because we’re here to help a female dentist navigate this because I’ve helped a lot of women or a lot of women have come to me like, hey, I inherited all this. What the heck do I do? I haven’t managed my own money, you know, single women or married women, right? They’re like, oh, I haven’t really managed my money and now I just got this massive inheritance. What do I even do? So I think we’re going to see more and more of that and we, you know, want to be prepared for it. And I’m just excited. Women deserve it. Give them all the money.

Matt Mulcock:
This is this is awesome. So I think we want to finish with specifically referencing what I kind of just mentioned earlier We’ve talked about the mastermind groups. We have one going right now. We’ve kind of been testing. It’s been going really well I guess one thing I will say if you have any if you’re listening to this By the way, man or woman, but if you have any interest in a mastermind group You have an idea for a mastermind group. We help create and facilitate these for dentists all over the country. This is something we’ve just started rolling out. And again, it’s been going really, really well with our initiative. One of our main initiatives being to connect, to connect other dentists with each other, not just with us. And so if you’re interested in that, if you have an idea for one, if you have a group that you wanna put together and you want us to help facilitate that, we certainly would love to do that. But I think more important, Victoria, I think the biggest call to action here is what is happening in June of this year specifically around the Dentist Money Summit, but more specifically around what you are putting together, what you’re doing. Do you wanna talk about that?

Victoria Ferguson:
Yeah, I am super, super excited about this. It’ll be the first time that we do it at Dentist Advisors. So it is a women’s money conversation circle. I will be joined by Kira Dent and Dr. Ashley Hoves, and we’re going to be diving into our money stories and how early money memories and how we were raised has shaped our relationship with money and how we manage it today. And we’ll also of course be doing a core values exercise. And if you haven’t done one, it is so transformational. All the women I’ve ever run it with, love it. It’s fantastic. And you get to do this with other amazing women all over the country. So if that interests you, denismoneysummit.com and register. It is going to be a pretty intimate session. We’re only allowing 10 to 15 people, including Kira, Ashley and I. So if you are in, it’s a small group because ultimately I want everybody who attends to have a really empowering time to be able to dive in their story. And I want everyone to be able to share if they want to. So I am keeping it really small so that everybody has an incredible experience. And if we find that these are high in demand, we’ll roll folks into the next one. But if you’re interested, it’ll be our conference is June 20th to the 22nd, Park City, Utah. You can not beat that. It’ll be, I believe the Friday night that we are there. So you’ll get to hang with me, Kira, Ashley. and incredible women from all over the country and we’ll be diving into our money stories. It’s going to be incredible. I’m so stoked.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, it’s going to be amazing. And also speaking of our, the event and powerful, amazing women and coming along, going along with this theme of starting these conversations and Megan, to your question earlier, that was so insightful, um, we’re going to have some powerhouse women speaking at the event, Dr. Michelle Jorgensen, Ashley Hovis, Kira Dent. Absolutely incredible. That Victoria Peterson from PDA. Um, a big, yeah, a big part of our speaking, sir, or people speaking are going to be these powerful women who are, if you have not heard any of these women speak, I’ve heard all of them speak. I’ve had the privilege to have to listen to all of them, either it be a podcast, a webinar or live on stage. And I can tell you all of them are incredible. I just talked to Michelle Jorgensen yesterday, um, talking about the event and what she’s going to be talking about. And I could not be more excited. So this is going to be such an opportunity. If you’re out there as a woman thinking.

Megan, to your point, like where do we even start? How do I even get this going? I truly think this event would be the perfect time, the perfect kind of stepping stone to say, okay, I’m gonna go be inspired and be able to talk and engage and connect with these women. And it’s gonna be an amazing place. So, okay, so that is, and we’ll get to meet you. Exactly, exactly. So that is Denn Definitely check it out.

Victoria Ferguson:
Yep, I love it. Yeah, and we’ll get to meet you. Megan and I, we’re so excited.

Matt Mulcock:
Okay, Victoria, Megan, any final words for our special Women’s Month podcast?

Victoria Ferguson:
No, just happy Women’s Month. We’re excited to be here and celebrate all the women that have helped us get here. And we’re excited for all the amazing progress that we’re gonna make together.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, love it. This is amazing. Thank you so much, honestly, to both of you for this conversation. Truly and honestly enlightening for me. Uh, really, really great conversation. If you want to talk to Victoria, uh, or Megan, right. You can maybe get ahold of Megan. Um, uh, you go to Dennisadvisors.com click on the yellow button now, book free consultation, uh, and request Victoria and you can get a, get a, get a hold of her. So this was awesome. Thank you so much to both of you. Thank you everyone for listening until next time. Bye bye.

Investing, Market