Why Dentistry Remains a Dentist’s Best Wealth-Building Tool – Episode #428

Accumulating wealth throughout a career is a goal for most dentists. But the slow grind of dentistry can often make it seem like an overwhelming task. One dentist writes in to ask, “Is there another, quicker way to build wealth?” On this episode of the Dentist Money Show™, Ryan and Matt examine the reasons why a dentist’s optimal wealth-building opportunities are within dentistry.

 

 

 

 

---

Podcast Transcript

Ryan Isaac:
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the glorious Dentist Money Show brought to you by Dentist Advisors, a no-commission, fee-only, comprehensive financial advisor just for dentists. All over the country, check us out at Dentistadvisors.com. Today on the show, Matt and I are talking about some feedback we got from a listener and a client that wanted to express some experience being in the field of dentistry and wondering if they could really stick it out for an entire career and starting to feel like maybe there’s something else out there that can help me build wealth instead of the day-to-day drilling and filling. So first of all, thank you for the feedback. We love to hear it. Thank you for listening and thank you for sharing your perspective. Hopefully we did it justice in trying to acknowledge and understand what you’re saying and giving some feedback from our perspective as working as financial advisors for dentists all over the country for all these years. So, that was awesome. Really loved the conversation. Thanks to Matt for being here as always. And if you have any questions for us, go to Dentistadvisor.com, click the book-free consultation button, tell us your dental story, tell us your money story. We’d love to have a chat with you. Thanks for being here. Enjoy the show.

Announcer:
Consult an advisor or conduct your own due diligence when making financial decisions. General principles discussed during this program do not constitute personal advice. This program is furnished by Dentist Advisors, a registered investment advisor. This is Dentist Money. Now here’s your host, Ryan Isaac.

Ryan Isaac:
Welcome to the Dentist Money Show where we help dentists make smart financial decisions. I’m Ryan and I’m here with Matt as always. What’s happening, Matt?

Matt Mulcock:
Yo, Ryan. I’m having a bit of a Ryan hangover right now we were in California together for like four days straight.

Ryan Isaac:
Yes.

Matt Mulcock:
The weather was perfect. It was amazing it was really fun. Literally it’s been now two days since I departed from your presence, and I’m sad.

Ryan Isaac:
Hate to break it to you. It was California… It was the beaches presence not mine.

Matt Mulcock:
No. No. No.

Ryan Isaac:
It’s because you attended a conference and stayed in a hotel across the street from the beach.

Matt Mulcock:
I did. Santa Monica was amazing. It was so much fun. And the weather could not have been…

Ryan Isaac:
I know.

Matt Mulcock:
We could not have timed that better just out of pure happenstance that we got there right after that massive storm. And then four days straight of 81 sunny, just perfect.

Ryan Isaac:
It’s gorgeous. You pay for it. You pay for it.

Matt Mulcock:
You pay for that, sunshine tax.

Ryan Isaac:
You pay the tax. It was good to have the crew in town, it was good to go to the conference. Shout out to you Dimensional.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Just gonna give a little…

Matt Mulcock:
They put a great conference together.

Ryan Isaac:
Smart folks who work there, man. Alright. Today’s episode’s cool. I’m really excited for today’s episode because it is purely, purely based around user feedback. User, why do I say user? I’ve been hanging out…

Matt Mulcock:
User.

Ryan Isaac:
I’ve been listening to Reese build an app for too long.

Matt Mulcock:
Too many tech bros, yeah.

[chuckle]

Matt Mulcock:
Listener.

Ryan Isaac:
Listener feedback. I think this person might be a client, too. Is it a client too?

Matt Mulcock:
Yes, they are a client. We’re not going to name names, but they are a client.

Ryan Isaac:
They’re cool. Everyone loves this client, but they are client and listener feedback. Today’s episode is purely listener feedback. They sent an email, which Matt is going to read, and we just thought, wow, this is really good insight. I’m glad someone gave some perspective here. Let’s acknowledge it. Let’s ask some questions about it. This would be a fun interview to do with some people, actually, with some dentists and clients.

Matt Mulcock:
Totally.

Ryan Isaac:
And then let’s give some perspective, let’s talk about it. So, without further ado…

Matt Mulcock:
Ado!

Ryan Isaac:
As they say in France or Spain.

[chuckle]

Matt Mulcock:
Somewhere.

Ryan Isaac:
Canada.

Matt Mulcock:
Canada, I guarantee you.

Ryan Isaac:
Oh they say it in Canada. Without further ado, hey, let’s read the email. What do we got?

Matt Mulcock:
I have a message… Should I name the advisor at least. It was addressed to one of our advisors.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
Taylor. So shout out Taylor. So it says, Taylor, I have a message for you. I would like you to be… Oh I’d like you to be like Hermes and deliver this message to the podcast hosts, Ryan and Matt. I’ve listened to several podcasts about dentists over the last couple years. On multiple occasions, I’ve heard Matt and Ryan busting the chops of the dentist for looking for ways to make extra cash. Busting the chops. It’s usually in reference to a dentist looking to invest into other sources or trying to make quick money in other places. Rightfully so, it seems foolish to look for other sources of income when we can try to do very well at our current profession. Here is the reason. As a mountain hunter… His words, not mine.

Ryan Isaac:
Okay.

Matt Mulcock:
As a mountain hunter, I will use my outdoor analogies. It’s a ton of work to hike to the top of a mountain, sweat, heavy packs, rain, suffering. When you get to the top there might not only or… Sorry, when you get to the top, there might not only be sheep there, but it has a great view. I don’t want to know what that means. So we go looking for the next mountain to conquer. But we remember the grueling climb and vertical ascent. With the memory of the ascent so near, we don’t want to cross the valley over and over and over. We’re looking for easier ways to get to the next ridgeline. You see, dentistry can really suck sometimes, and I would suspect many dentists are only looking for easier ways to increase their overall wealth other than drilling and filling. Pass this along to those yahoos. Thanks, anonymous person.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, not so anonymous, but that’s actually cool. So I just want to say first of all, thank you. I like when… I mean, because we’re just two fools behind some microphones just talking, no one’s here to push back on us.

Matt Mulcock:
Honestly, the biggest fools, yeah, we just talk.

[chuckle]

Ryan Isaac:
No one’s here to push back live. So first thing is I really like that. Shoot, Matt, tell me really fast though, did they email that? Because I want to look at a phrase. I already forgot what you had said. Did he email that to us this morning?

Matt Mulcock:
He did. Yep. Yep. It’s in your inbox.

Ryan Isaac:
That was from Taylor? Okay.

Matt Mulcock:
From Taylor, yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
What stood out to you first of all? What do you want to say? Let’s just start by… Let’s ask some questions about this. What sticks out to you about this message? First, having said, thank you Dr. O for passing some info to a couple of yahoo’s such as us.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. Love the push back. I love it. So yeah, the first thing that came to mind, or my first response, is in the beginning when he says we’re busting the chops of dentists looking for ways to make extra cash. Honestly, I think my first response to that, I was like, I really don’t… I really hope… We joke around a lot, and we’re sarcastic and we like to have fun, but I really genuinely don’t want anyone out… I don’t want it to come off ever like we’re making fun of…

Ryan Isaac:
Like mocking.

Matt Mulcock:
Like mocking you, or making anyone… I truly want it to come off even though we’re having fun, that we’re understanding, we understand why people are out there doing certain things. We are humans as well. This is all just human tendencies. So that was the first thing that stood out to me is this tone of like, “Oh, these guys are just here making fun of us.” I hope that’s not the case. We don’t wanna make fun or mock anybody.

Ryan Isaac:
Totally. Yeah, no, we definitely don’t feel that way, although sarcastic is our first language. Sarcasm is our first language.

[chuckle]

Matt Mulcock:
It’s my first. It really is. Yeah, it’s my defense mechanism, it truly is.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, I like that quote…

Matt Mulcock:
If I ever get uncomfortable, I always try to be sarcastic or funny. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Sarcastic, funny. It’s a trauma response. “Trying to make quick money,” I’m glad that he pointed out quick money because I do feel like a lot of the conversation revolves around maybe risk, unnecessary risk, unnecessary risk taking. So that stood out to me. I don’t know if you saw that. What did you think about the mountain hunter analogy by the way?

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, this is actually really interesting.

Ryan Isaac:
I like that. Does that mean hiker? I’m sorry, I don’t know. Does that mean like hiker?

Matt Mulcock:
I’m going to guess like a big, like big hunter.

Ryan Isaac:
Like Trail runner? Trail runner maybe.

Matt Mulcock:
My guess is a mountain hunter would be like you’re looking for like big climbs, I would imagine.

Ryan Isaac:
Wait, is that what they say like bag and peaks?

Matt Mulcock:
Bag and peaks, yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Is that it?

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Okay. That’s just not my world. I don’t know. Okay, cool.

Matt Mulcock:
So, I thought this was interesting and this is one of the things I would want to ask him more about or maybe push back on the pushback a little. I thought it was interesting when he… Again first of all great analogy, but when he talks about… So he’s talking about like he’s going after these mountains and he says when we get to the top, it’s a lot of suffering. It’s rain. It’s heavy packs and then he’s like it has a great view and I thought it was interesting. It says so we go looking for the next mountain to conquer. That stands out to me. I guess my first question would be, what do you mean by that? And why do you feel like there’s a next mountain to conquer? ‘Cause when I think of this, and maybe I’m misunderstanding the analogy, but I love the idea of the analogy of a mountain, and like building wealth is like climbing a mountain, but to me, I guess I always look at it as like there’s one big mountain to climb, which is getting to a place where work is optional. And I don’t think I would go looking for the next mountain if I found a path up that mountain. I guess that’s how I would look at that from my perspective.

Ryan Isaac:
It’s how you internalize that analogy?

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. I thought that was a good analogy. I thought the analogy was gonna go in the direction of once you’ve conquered something big, even looking back on how hard it was, it’s exciting to think about the next long, grueling hike to the next conquest. Like, “Oh, this was so hard. I actually look forward to doing all this hard work again because the process actually was pretty great now that I’m at the top of this thing.” What I thought was interesting, this is just the way I’m taking it too, but at the end, it ended up being about looking to the next peak and thinking of the hard work as like, “I don’t want to do that again.” He says, looking for an easier way to get to the next ridge line.

Matt Mulcock:
To the next ridge line.

Ryan Isaac:
Then it says, dentistry can suck sometimes. And I suspect a lot of us are looking for easier ways to do this rather than drilling and filling. So I get a sense of, which I don’t think is uncommon by any means. I get a sense of like, this career, I don’t know about this career, I’m not sure I could really do this for 20 more years. This is kind of grueling. I would like to retire and have enough wealth. I just not sure I can go through the day in and day out of this career specifically. So to me, I heard this, I thought it was going to be about just conquering the next thing, like I got success, I’m here, I’m kind of maybe bored now, or I want the thrill of the challenge again. We know people like that. A lot of entrepreneurs are like that. They build something, you’re like, “Hey, you can just coast forever,” and they’re like, “No, I’m going to go build something else again.”

[chuckle]

Matt Mulcock:
Who are you thinking about? Who are you…

Ryan Isaac:
What are you doing?

Matt Mulcock:
Does that feel kind of personal?

Ryan Isaac:
Like you might coast at like 30.

Matt Mulcock:
Someone we know really well. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
You could just be done with like two employees. What are you doing? Some people are like that, but this did seem a lot more like, I’m not sure I love dentistry. How do I get there without like, oh, this grueling kind of hike with a backpack, blood, sweat and tears kind of thing. So anyway.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, so that’d be my first question to Dr. O here is, when you use this analogy and you’re talking about climbing these mountains, like what… I guess my number one question would be what are you specifically thinking about when you talk about these mountains? What is a mountain to you?

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
‘Cause again, when he says we get to the top, well, okay, what does that mean getting to the top? And maybe what you’re saying is correct, Ryan, where it’s like getting finished with dental school and getting into your first practice and getting that practice up over seven figures in collections. Like these are mountains maybe he’s talking about and he’s thinking about like, “Oh, what’s the next one, I gotta… ” But I guess I just look at the whole process of building wealth and getting to a place of making work optional. Making work optional to me is the summit. Is the mountain. Is that ridiculous? Does that make sense?

Ryan Isaac:
I think that could be totally one of them. Yeah, for sure. Again, my brain is drawn, and this is just my experience, thinking about, it’s probably because I haven’t done the heart of hikes. [chuckle] I’ve been back in the peaks, really.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
So maybe that’s it. Or like, you know, like big mountain bike times we’ve had where we’re climbing a lot or just anything that took a lot of work. I think sometimes the mountain is the climb, you know? The peak, the conquest, the top, the peak is the climb along the way. It’s a little cheesy, but I think…

Matt Mulcock:
Life is the journey. Life is the journey. Yeah. Live, laugh, love. Live, laugh, love.

[laughter]

Ryan Isaac:
Live, laugh, love. Jeez. This took a turn already. So yeah, anyway, that’s the email. Here’s where my mind is going. I know you had some things to share, I do too. I think I wanted to address a dentist going outside of dentistry, and maybe what are some of the reasons they might do that, and just kind of respond and react to some of the various reasons why a dentist might go outside of dentistry to do something else. I’ll name a few that come to mind for me. One is the one I was thinking of, which was like, I’m mid-career, I’m an owner, I’ve kind of like pushed as far as I wanted to get in dentistry, I’m super successful, I got the money, I hit the peak, you know? And now it just feels like, do I just cruise for 15 years? I might be bored, I have an entrepreneurial spirit, I wanna go build something new. I liked the journey, I liked the grind, I liked the challenge, I wanna just go build something new for the sake of building it. I think that’s one personality type.

Matt Mulcock:
I think another thing that’s being…

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, sorry, really quick, just on that. It’s a really interesting perspective you have there because when you read through the second paragraph again on this email and then you hear that description, which we think is pretty common for dentists of like, like you said, you conquered that mountain, but you’re ready for the next one. But to your point, a lot of times we hear that as, I’m ready to go do that again, because I loved it so much. I loved the grind. But this email, the second paragraph, is basically saying, to your point again, and this is actually a really good point you make, of how unique, in a lot of ways, this perspective is, I think, in saying, he’s actually saying the exact opposite. He’s saying, no, the grind actually sucked, and I’m looking for an easier way to do it. It’s like really, yeah, and that’s interesting. It’s an honest take. I actually respect it. I respect it a lot.

Ryan Isaac:
It’s an honest take. I don’t think it’s uncommon, actually. I think it’s a sentiment shared by probably, you know, not a small number of dentists out there that they just aren’t in love with the day-to-day of actually drilling and filling. And they want something easier. They want something different, maybe easier than dentistry has been, or however, you know, I don’t think these people are saying easy, because these aren’t people who have taken shortcuts. But I think they’re probably saying, like, it’s just easier than drilling and filling. Maybe mentally, maybe physically, maybe emotionally, whatever it is, whatever easier means for them. We all have different definitions of that. But I think that’s perspective two, which is like, I don’t love this career path, I want to do something that’s more fulfilling, and not as grueling in the ways that it’s really draining for me. I think that’s perspective two.

Ryan Isaac:
Perspective three for me was something he mentioned earlier, which it seems like we’re on the same page with, which is I just wanna go make a quick, fast, easy buck by dipping my toe or moonlighting in something. I think that’s another perspective people end up having sometimes that probably goes a lot deeper than just that. So we’ve got entrepreneurial challenge, you have career burnout, and then you’ve got a quick, easy buck. I think those are a few perspectives. What else would… Is there any that would be in there? Any other ones?

Matt Mulcock:
I would say one of the drivers of this, I think a little bit, is a driver of very normal, again, we’re not saying this… I wanna be… Like I’m being genuine in the sense of like, I love this, getting this pushback, because it makes me think like, man, maybe we’re too sarcastic or too mocking on the podcast. Like it really has made me think in a good way. But this whole idea of like very normal human emotions that drive this kind of stuff, which are fear and greed. This idea of like FOMO, like I thought of that as well as like, Oh, okay. Like what’s what’s driving you to even get to the next mountain or seek out another mountain? And a lot of times I think… And I guess my take on this is the reason I’m even bringing this up is my… Not pushback, but my thoughts on this are just again other questions I’d have to Dr. O here would be, what’s even driving you to the next mountain? Is it fear? Is it greed? Is it this…

Ryan Isaac:
Is it boredom?

Matt Mulcock:
Is it boredom?

Ryan Isaac:
What’s underneath boredom?

Matt Mulcock:
Is it just pure distraction? Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Let’s call that another category. Let’s call that an unknown category of like, for some reason I just want to do something else and I’m not quite sure what’s driving me here.

Matt Mulcock:
Sure.

Ryan Isaac:
I’m bored, I’m worried, I’m scared, I’m anxious, I feel… I want to just go chase something. That’s probably another unknown category. Like, I don’t know, I just want to do something different, which begs the questions of exploration and curiosity, which is super cool. Okay. You had something to share along these lines. A story that we’ve shared in the past, I think maybe, but I was super…

Matt Mulcock:
Oh yeah, do you want to go there?

Ryan Isaac:
I think that’s a great… And then I was going to share something too that I felt was kind of applicable too here.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, do you want me to tell this?

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
So again, full disclosure, we’ve told this story before, but this is the first thing I heard of. Or sorry, the first thing I thought of when we got this email, when it comes to like, what would my response be or why do we always bring this up? Meaning, why do we always bring up the risk of being distracted or not focusing on one thing or like bouncing from one thing to the next or just always chasing the next big thing? I thought of this story and I wrote about this a long time ago and again, we’ve talked about it before. It goes all the way back to good old 1626.

Ryan Isaac:
Great year.

Matt Mulcock:
When the… Great year, solid year. The king of Sweden, his name was Gustavus Adolphus, you know him, right? You know he’s a really famous guy. He wanted to build a ship. He wanted to build this new ship, he wanted to have the greatest fleet. That was his dream. Have the greatest fleet of ships the world has ever seen. And he wanted to start with this one ship. So he called it the Vasa. He laid out his plans with the shipbuilders. The original plan was 108 feet, 32 cannons.

Matt Mulcock:
He gave ’em unlimited budget. He just said like, “Do do your thing. There’s literally no amount of money you can spend. That is too much. Go do it.” They cut down a thousand trees. They had 400 people working on this thing. And then as they started, they were a couple of months in, whatever, sometime frame in, he said, “Actually, you know what? I want to go 120 feet. I wanna make this bigger.” So they adjusted, made changes. Then he said after a while, “No, I want do it. I wanna change again. I want 135 feet. And I also want, instead of the, original 32 cannons, I want 36 cannons.” He also wanted, more… He wanted 12 more small guns. He wanted 48 mortars. He wanted 10 mounted guns on board. So he made all these changes. As they got closer and closer to finishing, he decided to upgrade again. And he said, “Actually, you know what? I want 64 large cannons.” He doubled it up. He kept adding, He kept adding. By the end, he actually wanted, he wanted to add 700 sculptures as well to this ship. So he started out with the original plans…

Ryan Isaac:
700? Did you say 700?

Matt Mulcock:
700.

Ryan Isaac:
Sculptures.

Matt Mulcock:
Sculptures to this ship.

Ryan Isaac:
Okay. Yep. Okay.

Matt Mulcock:
It ended up being like 135 feet. Again, something else it’s got all these insane.

Ryan Isaac:
And 10 zillion pounds.

Matt Mulcock:
10 zillion pounds. 50 crew members died during the construction.

Ryan Isaac:
Cool.

Matt Mulcock:
The main builder, I think at one point actually ended up, I think, well, he died as well. Anyway, so August 10th, 1628 they threw a big banquet to… He throws a banquet for himself. He brings all these people from all over the world to see this ship go off. They hadn’t finished it, it wasn’t completely done, but he was so anxious, he wanted to do it. So, they decide to have this party. They were in Stockholm. The ship takes off within a matter of minutes as they take off from the dock there, big gust of wind comes and knocks the ship off balance, it tips, the Gunports filled with water, and they, I think it was less than an hour the ship completely is gone. Gone.

Matt Mulcock:
So I guess the question is why did this email remind me of this story? This, to me, this story, I think, basically sums up for me the biggest risk of doing what Dr. O was talking about. And I’m not even saying he’s doing that when he talks about these mountains, but I’m saying there is a big risk of what I’d call playing the wrong game of just wanting bigger, wanting better, wanting the… He said… As the way he phrased it, it was like easier ways to make money, easier ways to build wealth, chasing what I call the shiny object. I think there’s a legitimate risk there. Or making progress, but not making progress fast enough. Or having initial plans and then saying, “You know what, no, I want actually more. I want something bigger and better.” I think there’s a real risk in just how our human brains work and how the world works today with how connected we are in social media, and status chasing and all this kind of stuff. This was the first thing I thought of was like this legitimate risk. And this is why I’d want to ask is like, and I ask people all the time, what is the main driver of this? Is it based on your values and what you’re trying to accomplish in life based on just building wealth? Or is this like status chasing and this story reminded me of that.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, man, I think that’s… Yes. I think that’s a really good place to get to ultimately, which is like you just said it, why?

Matt Mulcock:
Why.

Ryan Isaac:
What’s the why behind all of this stuff? That’s where I was trying to go before. What are the different scenarios where someone might want to do something outside of dentistry? And I think, this client listener, not end user, is acknowledging in that first part of feedback, which he’s saying, yeah, sometimes we want a like quick, easy buck. And I think he was agreeing that that’s probably a dangerous, risky thing to go chase down.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. He says, “Rightfully so, it seems foolish to look for other sources of income when we can try to do very well at our current profession.” It’s like he acknowledges it can seem, yeah, as he put it foolish.

Ryan Isaac:
That that feels like a whole different conversation, which is just like, Hey, if you are at this point in dentistry, especially if you’re an owner and you’ve gone through all the schooling, all of the debt, all of the headache, all of just the mental, physical, emotional pain and suffering that you’ve been through, trying to build wealth outside of that while still having like both feet inside of dentistry is gonna be… You’re just gonna have to change your entire career path. So I think we’re all in agreeance about the risk of just blowing up all the whole dental career and all the stuff that’s gone into it to chase down something. I mean, there’s horror story after horror story we could talk about forever people doing that. And, it not turning out so well. To acknowledge his point though, I think what he’s trying to say, and I think that’s what we can do here, is just acknowledge it’s fair that not everyone loves their careers after they’ve gotten into it, for whatever reasons.

Ryan Isaac:
Maybe you got into it for the wrong reason to begin with. Maybe you had no idea. Maybe you had every good intention to do as much homework as you possibly could have, but now you find yourself 10 years into it and you’re like, you just don’t love it anymore. And I can’t see myself doing this for way down the road. I just can’t picture this. And I think it’s fair. And I have no idea where this quote comes from. I’ve just heard it a bunch of times where it says, “You’re under no obligation to be the person you were five minutes ago,” and…

[chuckle]

Matt Mulcock:
I love that.

Ryan Isaac:
I don’t even know if someone smart said that. Or it was probably like on friends or something. I have no idea.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. Flew Sat on a bumpy sticker or something. I don’t know.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. It’s like Parks and Rec. I don’t know. But I like the idea and I embrace, and this is just a little, it’s probably my personal bias, but I embrace the idea of changing throughout your life and just being like, Hey, the thing I used to be into or want or prefer, I just don’t anymore. And so now I have to change that and deal with the consequences and figure out what’s the thing I do prefer? What’s the thing I do want? I think that’s okay. And it’s totally fine to do in career. And I think that’s what he’s saying here. And I want to acknowledge that I think there’s probably not a small number of dentists that just don’t love dentistry. And they do have this question like, there’s no way I can do this for 20 more years.

Ryan Isaac:
I gotta build wealth some other way. What can I do? So I want to acknowledge that, I would say that the field of dentistry is as broad and robust and, the opportunities to participate in it. Use your debt experience, skillset, time that you’ve already invested to have an income, a decent income from dentistry without burning yourself out. There’s a lot of different ways you can do it. You don’t have to be an owner. You can work for someone. You can share partnerships. You can share duties, responsibilities. You can do zero clinical work and have associates or partners. There’s… It feels like a very different field than it did 10-15 years ago with more career options than just five days a week drill and fill.

Matt Mulcock:
Drill and fill Yep.

Ryan Isaac:
Do it for 30-40 years and then hanging up and you’re done. There’s a lot more opportunity in that. And my preference, this is just my bias, seeing how much dentists have to go through. So if I were hearing this from a client, my preference would be that they explore and exhaust every possible option within dentistry to use. Again…

Matt Mulcock:
Within their skillset. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. The skills, the debt, the time, the money, everything they’ve acquired and gotten into up to this point to make an income. It doesn’t have to be their whole income, make something go teach, go consult. Do something in your field of expertise you’ve already paid the dues for to continue to squeeze out any income maybe while you look for something else. But I just want to acknowledge I think that’s fair. And I think you’re saying the same thing too. That’s fair to just wake up one day and be like, ah, this isn’t for me anymore.

Matt Mulcock:
Dentists is a lonely profession. He says it at the end there. Dentistry can suck. I think for a lot of people it does. And like you said, certain things in your life, you wake up one day or maybe it’s been a slow burn or whatever, all of a sudden you’re like, “Yeah, I’ve changed my preferences because I’m now a different human.” And that’s constantly happening. A couple of things I want to add to this as we’re think going through this, not to get all like… Because I think there’s two different parts of this. It’s what you’re saying, there’s the part of like, yes, we acknowledge that dentistry can be really hard and you might change your mind. Or maybe you get into the career and you’re like, “Ugh, I don’t know.” The other part of this I’m thinking about though is I think he’s also referencing the investing part of this. The obviously the wealth building part. And, sorry, I’m gonna get for one second. I’m gonna get super financial planning nerdy. Is that okay?

Ryan Isaac:
Let’s do it. Let’s do it. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. If we get super financial planning nerdy for one second and we talk about the idea of capital, the root of capitalism, money, capital, there’s only three sources of capital basically that you can have in your life. Three categories. There’s your human capital, your skillset, your ability to generate income. There’s investment capital, and that’s very, very broad. And then there’s social capital, like social security. So the reason I’m bringing this up, you’re probably like, “What the heck are you talking about?”

[chuckle]

Ryan Isaac:
I’m enthralled.

Matt Mulcock:
I will say. So I think the reason I bring this up is that what he’s, I think referring to is the human capital side of dentistry that can generate money, can suck. That’s what we’re talking about there’s also the part of the whole way you get to a place of making work optional is directly related to your ability to transition from human capital or the human capital you generate into investment capital. So the second part of this being the investment capital part of it, that opens up, I think the other part of this email. Which is like, how do I actually do that when now I’ve generated this money and this is where we see a lot of… So when we’re making comments or as he put it, busting the chops…

Ryan Isaac:
This is the part. This is the… Yes.

Matt Mulcock:
This is the part we’re talking about.

Ryan Isaac:
Yes. This is the scary part to flop the seat.

Matt Mulcock:
This is the scary part. Exactly. So does that make sense? Am I horrible? Meandering?

Ryan Isaac:
No, no, no, no. It makes total sense. I think we’re okay. This is cool. We’re arriving at the same conclusion, which is we concur with this email and, we’re trying to like, well, we’re not dentists. We can’t totally empathize with it, but I mean, everyone knows what it’s like to experience something like a career change or something in your life where it’s just like, just, that’s not me. That’s not me anymore. I wanna make a change, to totally acknowledge that, empathize with it as much as we can and say like, “Hey, that’s very normal.” The financial planners in us, are the ones who say, “Let’s just be careful because what you’ve invested to become where you’re at in dentistry so far is a gigantic investment.” And the return on that is gonna be very hard to replicate.

Ryan Isaac:
I can very confidently say in 15 years of this business, watching thousands of dentists make financial decisions and talking to so many people, I’ve seen very, very few. If I really tried hard to think about it, I don’t know if I could get to 10, it’s probably still single digits, but single digit people who built a career on top of their career in dentistry while still in dentistry and ended up building something like way bigger than dentistry. It’s gotta be single digit people. It doesn’t mean it can’t happen. My experience is limited to just what I know and what I’ve seen. What I’m saying is that’s hard to replicate and it is very easy to go try to chase something down in that, I don’t know, in that desperation to make a change or in that just that feeling you’re having in a career where you’re not quite settled in it and then really mess up the progress you’ve made so far.

Ryan Isaac:
And they’re not. This person isn’t saying, “Let’s just go do something crazy.” So yeah, it’s like we’re acknowledging where they’re feeling and then saying, “But let’s be careful and let’s take calculated risks. Let’s really understand.” And who knows, maybe at the end of the day, people in this situation might be like, “I don’t care if I’m making 700 as a dentist. I’d rather go make like 150 teaching somewhere, or working for a supply company or doing something completely different outside of dentistry. I don’t care about the income change.” Well, that’s fine. Now we’re just talking about a different wealth building trajectory and opportunity.

Matt Mulcock:
Sure.

Ryan Isaac:
And it’s okay if we’re acknowledging those things. It’s a very complex subject. I think this points out a lot of the humanness in any career and what it feels like to juggle that and balance that with, “I gotta make some money and I have to like, build some wealth. And I don’t know if I can do this forever,” stuff. It’s tough.

Matt Mulcock:
The other part of this though, that you just alluded to just now and earlier that also stood out to me that I think needs to, it bears repeating and talking about a little bit is the line that says we’re looking for easier ways to get to the next ridge line. That is also my ears perk up a little bit and I’m like, some red flags go off of this idea. I think one of the biggest risks we see with this kind of thing, again, if we’re talking just about that second category of transitioning into investments and building wealth via investments, which by the way, you should be doing. That’s the only way you make this happen.

Ryan Isaac:
But the scary thing…

Matt Mulcock:
But when I see people say, we’re looking for easier ways to get to the next ridgeline, that to me, just being totally candid, that scares me because what I… And now again, not saying Dr. O is saying this, but this is what I go to immediately is you’re looking for quicker ways to make money. You’re looking for quicker ways to get up that mountain. And one of the biggest things I try to tell people all the time is, I don’t care what you’re doing, real estate, private businesses, public markets, whatever it is, it takes a long time. It’s a grind. The climb to the top of that mountain…

Ryan Isaac:
All of them will be, yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
All of them will be a grind and none of them will be super easy. And so that’s where… I think that might be the key for me of where, the biggest risk I see people make or the biggest mistake I see people make is chasing down that easy climb.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Common faulty.

Matt Mulcock:
And that’s where people get in a lot of trouble.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. And it’s likely that if it’s much, much easier, it’s either not real and it’s a trap. And it’s danger zone. Or the payoff just won’t be as much as your current path would be if it’s much, much easier. To play devil’s advocate against that, I don’t know, maybe there’s a path, maybe it’s mentally, emotionally so hard that you could go actually put in more time and effort and work sacrificing somewhere else, but it’s mentally, emotionally so much better for you that even more work feels easier. So we’d have to have this… You know it’d be cool to have this person on the podcast and have a conversation.

Matt Mulcock:
Totally.

Ryan Isaac:
Like of a part two. That’d actually be kind of cool.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Like, let’s have a part two from a dentist, talk about what this feels like to be in this position and career. I don’t know if they’d want to, but…

Matt Mulcock:
So just to that point really quick ’cause I think it’s a totally valid devil’s advocate approach to say, maybe there’s a dentist out there that’s… And he’s saying, there’s a lot of dentists looking to change. They don’t wanna drill and fill. Again, I guess I keep coming back to… And this is a question I want ’em to ask is, are you talking about your career? Are you talking about your investment strategy? Because those are, to me very, very…

Ryan Isaac:
Two very different things.

Matt Mulcock:
Different things. To your point, if you just hate dentistry and you’re like, “There’s gotta be a better way to generate human capital.” Okay. Cool. Let’s talk about that. But if you’re talking about an investment strategy that you think is gonna be an easy exit from what you’re currently doing…

Ryan Isaac:
Like big or faster.

Matt Mulcock:
Big or faster.

Ryan Isaac:
Quicker, yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
You’re gonna get yourself into trouble. And that’s…

Ryan Isaac:
And that’s a scary zone.

Matt Mulcock:
Again, that is what we’re always talking about when we’re “busting the chops” to people or making jokes about general strategies. We talk about the brother-in-law a lot or whatever. It’s because we see it all the time. People saying, “I want to get to that top of the mountain, but I want to get there way faster.” And it’s just always a recipe for disaster. So again, I guess I just look at those as two different things, do you hate dentistry? Okay, let’s talk about that. Or do you like dentistry, but you get bored of the stock market and you’re looking for something that’s gonna grow faster than 10% a year on average? Those are two very different things.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Which put that in a calculator though. [chuckle] That’s a lot of wealth if you’re putting money into it. Something getting you 10% a year.

Matt Mulcock:
Yep.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. I love it. Okay. I like that. Separating investments from your career and those questions can lead you down… That would be like a slow process of questioning if you’re like, “I really hate this career.” There’s a lot of questions to ask and a lot of time to take to slowly think about, well all right, well, you’ve already been through school and you’ve already paid this money and you already have this skillset and expertise and experience, what else could we do with those things that makes you love it a little bit more? Maybe, and I have no idea who this person even is in real life. Taylor does. Taylor, right?

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. Taylor. Yep.

Ryan Isaac:
But I would wonder like, well, do you need an associate? Or a partner or do you need to back off your days? Or do you need to sell and work for a really cool corporation and be a co-partner or just an employee? Do you need to go teach people? Do you need to go work at a dental school and feel like you’re giving back to younger generations? Are we missing some fulfillment in your personal life that’s making you hate your work life?

0:36:02.4 Matt: Hey, how about, you referenced drill and fill. Is there something, some CE you gotta do to like update your skills to say, you know what, I wanna go do big procedures.

Ryan Isaac:
I just wanna do big stuff. Surgical, oratory or athlete…

0:36:11.4 Matt: I wanna do something different. I wanna get out of this drill and fill. Yeah. Tons of different stuff.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Can you change the nature of your job or, I was just thinking, is there something in your personal life that could get better that would actually make you enjoy your work more? Maybe you’re bored in your life, maybe you’re bored that you’ve just been on this grueling path and you haven’t done anything fun along the way, and you just keep putting off your hobbies and interests and whatever it is your travel or whatever. Maybe your boring personal life is making your work life boring. I’m not saying this about this person. I’m speaking for me. I’ve been there, I’ve been there, so.

[chuckle]

0:36:44.8 Matt: We are psychoanalyzing ourselves at this point.

Ryan Isaac:
These are questions I’m asking myself out loud. I’m not pointing them to Dr. O here. So to your point, Matt, separate investing strategy from career and then ask a million questions and see where you can lead yourself down these paths. See where you can find yourself some incremental change. That would be my preference as an advisor, to see someone go down that path if they’re expressing, these things to me. But this is a fun discussion. We gotta reach out and thank him.

Matt Mulcock:
I love this.

Ryan Isaac:
Say, Hey this made for a great podcast.

Matt Mulcock:
It’s going on the show.

Ryan Isaac:
And do you wanna come on the show and talk about it? Because that’d be super cool.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. It’d be be awesome. I think it’d be great and…

Ryan Isaac:
I love it.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. I guess my final takeaways on this would just be to your point, being totally curious about… From our standpoint, being curious, asking a lot of questions, but asking yourself these questions, asking a lot more questions around like… Just asking Why? Why do I think this… A question I ask of people all the time is like what game are you playing? And I don’t mean that judgmentally. I’m meaning like, truly what game are you playing here? Are you trying to play a long-term game? Are you playing a game to build wealth? Are you playing a game that aligns with your values? There’s a lot of different games that you can play. Status games, and again, no judgment there. I actually just…

Ryan Isaac:
But just answer. Like figure it out for yourself. That’ll tell you a lot. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
Just answer. We’ve actually talked about this, Ryan, where we talked about like the values exercise. That we’ve started doing more. We did it at an event recently. And one of the things we talked about is stop putting shame and blame or judgment or meaning to certain values. So for example, we talked about you might value status or purely wealth or certain amounts, whatever. Who cares? Just own that and make that a value. And so, but the point is here, just my main takeaway is just asking yourself why.

Ryan Isaac:
Why.

Matt Mulcock:
A lot more. Why am I chasing this or why am I going after that next mountain?

Ryan Isaac:
Yep. And then I love the values thing align. If you haven’t done a values exercise, you can do it. They’re all over the internet. Ask your advisor. We have cool cards and some websites, but do a values exercise. What do you value in your life? And then ask, compare if your money decisions and your career decisions are in line with those values. It might be that they’re not, maybe they used to be, maybe they’ve changed, maybe they never were. Those are good things to ask.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. We should get Dr. O in here.

Ryan Isaac:
I would love it. If he would love to come talk of that stuff.

Matt Mulcock:
Let’s do a follow up.

Ryan Isaac:
Because he has the firsthand experience and could probably clarify a lot of things too. But hopefully we did… Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
Let’s let him listen to this really quick. We’ll let him listen to it. And then we’ll have him on and he’ll be like, “Listen, idiots, this is what I actually meant.”

Ryan Isaac:
“Look at these fools, I didn’t even mean that. You guys are so stupid.” Which I’m like, “Yeah, you’re probably right.” So thanks, Dr. O for giving some feedback. If you would like to give us any feedback or hear a subject, just reach out, let us know. Shoot us an email, a DM, something, and we’d love to talk about it. So thanks for that. Thanks for everyone for tuning in and listening. We hope some of this is helpful, if not provocative.

Matt Mulcock:
Provocative?

Ryan Isaac:
If nothing else, it’s provocative.

[chuckle]

Ryan Isaac:
Isn’t there like an old Will Ferrell quote about that? It’s so provocative. I think it was used as a rap song, isn’t it?

Matt Mulcock:
Oh yeah. The song. It’s a Kanye song, yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
It’s a Kanye. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
No, it’s not. It’s gross.

Ryan Isaac:
Is that Will Ferrell, isn’t it Will?

Matt Mulcock:
It gets the people going. Yeah.

[chuckle]

Ryan Isaac:
It’s so good.

Matt Mulcock:
It’s on the ice skating movie, Blades of Glory.

Ryan Isaac:
Blades of Glory.

Matt Mulcock:
That’s where it’s from. Yeah. There it is.

Ryan Isaac:
If you have any questions, dentistadvisors.com and you can book a free chat with one of our advisors and tell us your story. Book a free chat with one of our dental specific advisors. Tell us your story and let’s have a conversation. We’d love to have some back and forth with you. So thanks for being here, Matty. Thank you again.

Matt Mulcock:
Ryan, it’s fun as always.

Ryan Isaac:
Come back to California soon, please.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Ryan Isaac:
And we’ll catch you all next time on another episode of the Dentist Money Show. Take care now. Bye-Bye.

Behavioral Finance