Pushing Past Your Limits: Lessons From “The Iron Cowboy” – Episode #481

James Lawrence, famously known as “The Iron Cowboy”, recounts his incredible quest of conquering 50 Ironman triathlons in 50 days in 50 different states chronicling the many challenges he faced, including profound physical exhaustion. On this Dentist Money™ Show, Ryan and Matt illustrate why James’ persistence should resonate with every dentist who is navigating their own demanding journey.

 

 

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Podcast Transcript

Ryan Isaac:
We’ve got a special one today. Matt, I’m gonna let you do a little bit of an intro here to our guest that we’re very excited to have with us because this is not only a very fun podcast to do and I think it’ll be very different and entertaining, but this is a huge part of the Dennis Money Summit that we have coming up this year. So Matt, you wanna give a little intro and then let’s let James do the talking for a minute.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, I was going to say, I kind of, I’ll give you a brief intro, but I feel like there’s no one better to give the intro. Then, then James himself, but I do want to start off with actually a question to James Lawrence here, AKA the iron cowboy, which we want to jump into. I want to start off with a question, James, is this the first time you’ve been on a dental specific financial planning podcast?

Ryan Isaac:
Totally.

James Lawrence:
Well, that was very specific in terms of two industries slammed into one. So you win this will be the first.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, that’s what I figured. The next question on top of that, to back that up is of when it comes to where it ranks in your accomplishments, where does this rank being on the dental specific financial planning podcast? Where does this rank with all the accomplishments you’ve had?

James Lawrence:
Probably somewhere between 1000 and 1006.

Matt Mulcock:
Oh, hey, we’ll take that’s pretty good. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Okay, that’s a good list though to be on. So I think it’s actually a very fair and candid statement. So thank you.

Matt Mulcock:
To be honest, I actually do feel good about that because that felt very honest and you’ve had so many accomplishments. To be near the top 1000, we’ll take that. Just outside of it, yeah, I’ll take that to be near top 1000. We are so excited to have you. Just again, I’ll give a, from my perspective, a brief intro and then James, I’d love to hear you. We’ll just start with, again, us allowing you to give your introduction. But I…

James Lawrence:
Just the kind of it. That’s big.

Ryan Isaac:
I’m sorry.

James Lawrence:
Is anyone really good at introing themselves?

Matt Mulcock:
I mean, I don’t know. That’s a good question.

Ryan Isaac:
I was gonna ask what’s more awkward when someone else intros you and you kind of sit there while they read the paragraph they took from your website or you just being able to say like, hi, this is who I am. I hate when people read about me somewhere. Ryan’s a financial planner.

James Lawrence:
Yeah, you can really just say like, this is James the baddest ass on the planet. And we can, we can just start a conversation.

Matt Mulcock:
Oh, I love this. I love this. Here’s James Lawrence, the baddest ass on the planet, uh, AKA the iron cowboy. Uh, I’ll just say this, what you are known for, right? Oh, I know what I know you for, uh, is the 50, 50. And then since then doing the, uh, what did you call the, um, conquer 100 where you did a hundred, so I guess we’ll start this 50, you did 50 iron mans.

Ryan Isaac:
That was easy. That’s it.

James Lawrence:
Concluding.

Matt Mulcock:
In 50 days in 50 States, the ridiculousness of that statement, even as I say it. Like is, is unbelievable. So that’s what kind of put you on the map. Right. And then you’ve since gone on to do the conquer 100. So that’s, that’s where I’ll kind of finish the, the intro. Like you said, the baddest ass on the planet. I want to, I’d love to hear like where you just kind of the origins, where did iron cowboy come from?

James Lawrence:
Yeah, it’s interesting. I grew up in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, and it’s known for one of the largest rodeos in the world, the Calgary Stampede. And I got to go to the Calgary Stampede every single year growing up. And so people just associate my nickname with where I came from. Calgary is kind of known as cow town and you know, it’s chuck wagon races and horses and all these amazing things. But I’m actually allergic to horses and hay, which makes the nickname kind of stupid.

Ryan Isaac:
Wait, full on allergic? You’re allergic to horses and hay. Can’t be around them. Okay.

James Lawrence:
Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. No, that, that you can’t make this stuff up. And, and so, um, the reason the public decided to call me the Iron Cowboy is cause when I first started racing and doing these world records, so I first started racing like 2004, and then we attempted our first world record in 2010, which was the most half Ironmans anybody’s done in a year and we were doing it to raise money to build dams and do some orphanage feeding centers in Africa. And we called the project the try and give a damn project. Well, I love, I’m an entrepreneur and yeah, so I did come up with the name try and give a damn and I’m glad you picked up on that so quickly. That really was, I mean, this was like way before social media was even big. And so we were just trying to figure out ways to, to help me stand out from the crowd, cause in a, in a race of 2000 athletes, you all look the same.

Ryan Isaac:
I love that. That actually just makes me so happy. That makes me so happy.

Matt Mulcock:
Oh yeah, we picked up, we were both smirking, yeah.

James Lawrence:
You know, everybody’s fairly in shape. You’re wearing spandex, there’s popular colors. You know, it’s very hard to stand out and it’s literally the worst spectator sport on the planet. Um, your athlete goes zooming by, um, you’re in the water. That’s really tough to spectate that. So really the only opportunity to spectate with any type of efficiency is on the run. And like I said, my kids were really small. They would, as I was swimming or biking the night before, as I’m doing all the race prep, they would create posters for me. And fun things to engage and be part of the event. Um, and a lot of times I’d miss them because we looked the same. They didn’t know where to stand on the course. It’s stupid. And so I started to, um, wear a cowboy hat during the run portion so that my kids, I’m the only one wearing a cowboy hat. So my kids, you come in a mile away and there was like, dad’s coming, dad’s coming, get the signs out. We’d have that quick energy exchange. They loved it. I loved it. And then as I did that consistently.

The public just said, well, there’s the Iron Cowboy. And so we just ran with that, turned it into a brand. I mean, as you can see our book right there, Iron Cowboy, Read If Possible. Everything we do now is Iron Cowboy. We’re Team Iron Cowboy. We’ve got all these different experiences and coaching platforms and everything. And so it just stuck. And like it or not, that’s what we got. We’re Iron Cowboy.

Matt Mulcock:
I think the best part about that is that you are allergic to horses and don’t obviously can’t be around them. But it’s cool to hear just the natural organic creation of that brand. I think those are kind of, I feel like those are always like the best brands when they are organic and they come from those, those good intentioned places or just kind of naturally happened.

James Lawrence:
Yeah. And if you take a look at our logo, a lot of thought went into it. Um, it’s, it’s the cowboy hat and then the beard. Um, cause when I was doing those racing too, I had a really big beard. And another thing I tried to do to stand out from everybody else. Um, as we sit here, the three of us have glorious beards. And when I started doing it in 2012, it was one of the thing. Um, I was the only one with a beard and I was the only one with a cowboy hat. And then if you turn the logo sideways, it’s actually an I and a C. And so again, a lot of thought went into the logo in terms of branding and creativity.

Ryan Isaac:
I’m curious what the, um, just a little bit of background before that. You, did you do, you, you did races and triathlons and Ironmans before this. This is kind of just your life or what are the, like, where did your fitness just in general in life begin?

James Lawrence:
Yeah. So I grew up in Canada again. Um, and I had three sisters, no brothers, and my parents probably couldn’t name Michael Jordan, Mike Tyson, like, like just really mainstream sports people. So there was no sports in my house. Um, but through school, I, I loved it and I played on every sports team and just really became a well-rounded athlete. Ended up specializing in wrestling, um, wrestled for eight years, two years after high school. Went undefeated my senior year and just had a really great time doing that. And then I moved to the, to the States, met my wife and was, was a gym goer, mostly weights and you know, worried more about my physical appearance than my overall health. And as the story goes, there was a four mile fun run here in Orem, Utah, I’m over Thanksgiving and she was like, Hey, why don’t we come to this formal fun run? And I kind of looked at it and I was like, nobody runs for fun. That’s stupid.

It should never be called a form of, it’s as dumb as the iron cowboy being allergic to horses and hey, like that’s the same game that we’re talking about. But as a good husband, I was like, yeah, that sounds great. Let’s go do that. And, um, literally got off the couch, uh, suffered through a stupid formal fun run and later that afternoon, I was coughing in the corner after Thanksgiving dinner and borderline pathetic. Um, and, but my wife, lovingly, she.

Ryan Isaac:
What a dumb name.

Matt Mulcock:
I still feel like that, yeah.

James Lawrence:
Um, doesn’t mince words. And she walked up to me and she said this, she said, you are pathetic. Um, and, and just, yeah. And I think it was the energy that I was sending out there. I was feeling so pathetic. She just validated it with words. And then she said, well, guess what? Um, I just signed you up for the Salt Lake city marathon. It’s in four months. You should probably figure that out. And she walks away. And so I was like, okay. Yeah. Invest in the cycle path.

Matt Mulcock:
You were worried about it and she just confirmed it.

Ryan Isaac:
Who did you marry?

James Lawrence:
We just celebrated 23 years of marriage. Yeah, it’s amazing. And so, um, I went and had the marathon experience, hated it. Uh, absolutely hated it. And, uh, threw up at the finish line, was disgusted with the sport. My knees killed, my hips were sore. Um, and I, I had tickets to the MMA fights that night in Salt Lake City. And so I went there and I was pissed off that I had to do this marathon and, um, sat down, I didn’t move the entire night, like four hours worth of amazing fights.

Ryan Isaac:
Congrats.

Matt Mulcock:
Oh, congrats.

James Lawrence:
The fights end, I go to stand up, I can’t. My knees have swollen up to the size of cantaloupes. I can’t stand up. I can’t walk, I can’t move. So now, envision the most machoist of environments, right? They have to wheel in a wheelchair for me to get to my car. I legit can’t walk. Now, you have this moment of, okay, I’m either gonna let that define who I am, or I’m gonna figure this out and become the greatest endurance athlete of all time. Not dubbed by me, that’s a headline that’s been created. And so that’s how this whole journey started. I got off the couch, suffered the former fun run, was forced through marriage to do a marathon, and then was humiliated at some MMA fights, and then here we are today, about 20 years later.

Matt Mulcock:
So James, was that, it sounds like, could you describe that, that turns, that was like, was that your turning point? Were it like in your head at that point? What were you thinking? You said this is a defining moment for me, but you went on to be who you are obviously, but what was going through your head at that point for real? They’re just saying like, okay, what’s the next step after this? You can’t walk out of this stadium. Are you thinking I’m going to go do another marathon tomorrow? Like what were you thinking at that point?

James Lawrence:
No, it was actually, I believe in life we have these turning points where we either allow failure to define us and that’s who we become and that’s the belief system and narrative that we get into, or we go, okay, I don’t want that to be my moment. And I want to dig my heels in and overcome that. And so I took it as a challenge. And initially it was just to become a runner. But I still stood by the stance that there’s no such thing as a fun run.

At the time Lance Armstrong was in his hay day and cycling is not big in Canada. And so my buddy was like, Hey, there’s this guy, Lance Armstrong. He’s winning the tour to France. It’s the final day. We’re having a watch party. You want to come over? And I’m like, sure. That’s whatever. I don’t know what that is, but great. So I went over and I watched Lance just dominate. Um, one of his seven tour to France wins. And I was like, that’s incredible. He’s like, man, have you ever heard of triathlon? I’m like, no, what’s that? He’s like swim by ground. I’m like, cool. That sounds neat. And he goes, we did this race in St. George every single year. You should come on. I’m like, what’s your time in something like that. And he told me his time. He was like third place in the race. And I was like, God, I think I can beat that. And he’s like, yeah. And he’s like, and he’s like, no way you can beat that. And I’m like, I’ll bet you a hundred bucks. I can beat that. And, uh, and he goes bet. And so I, I signed up for the race and trained for it. And, um, it was, it was about nine or 10 months later.

Ryan Isaac:
You thought that? Awesome!

James Lawrence:
Bought a bike, learned how to swim, and I just really fell in love with the sport and the community, ended up beating him and then won the 100 bucks. And I just really dove in that following year, I did 14 sprint races and just my wife and I were doing it together. It was a ton of fun. Just the diversity of the swim, bike, ground nutrition, strength training mindset, all of it was just this massive challenge. And you get out of high school sports and you’re in life and you’re like,

Matt Mulcock:
So you win the 100 bucks.

Ryan Isaac:
You got it.

James Lawrence:
I need a competitive outlet. And so this was just kind of really pulled me in and be 48 this year and just still doing it.

Ryan Isaac:
A couple of questions. Uh, man, that’s such a cool story. The first thing that came to my mind was if your wife was that brutal on Thanksgiving about the fun run, what did she say about your knees, uh, after wheeling out from the MMA fight? Did you hide? Okay.

Matt Mulcock:
I’m getting wheeled out.

James Lawrence:
Well, I wasn’t there. Well, I wasn’t there because I couldn’t get out of bed the next day. But at church, everybody asked them how the marathon went for us. And she was like, well, I’m here and he’s not. What does that tell you?

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, she wouldn’t even address you directly at that point. Yeah, that’s fair. Matt, this is on one of your questions where we’re headed with this. I’m wondering around the same time, what else you’re doing in life, like for work, what is your work life like?

James Lawrence:
No, no, no. Yeah, it was a personal. Yeah. So as I was newly married and I was, I was kind of shooting to, to be a professional golfer, um, fell in love with.

Matt Mulcock:
Renaissance man right here. Renaissance of all Renaissance man. He’s an undefeated wrestler. He’s a golfer. This is unbelievable

James Lawrence:
So I was working at a golf course and I was just kind of all in the industry. And it’s one of the reasons I came to visit Utah, but didn’t go home because the seasons were so great, much longer golf season. Um, I got down to a four handicap and I took my player ability test, which is to be a kind of a head pro, a teaching pro, not on the tour. Um, and I missed, I missed it by one stroke two times. I shot 73, 74, 73, 74, both times. Um, and then just the. Seven bucks an hour at a golf shop wasn’t putting food on the table. We had two new kids. And at the time, I had a I was I was married. My father-in-law was a commercial real estate developer. Her brother was a custom homebuilder. Two sisters were real estate agents. And so I saw a gap. And so I opened up a mortgage brokerage and became a mortgage broker.

And then just started down that career path. And at the same time was just having the hobby of golfing and getting into triathlon. And so all that was kind of happening at the same time. And we were growing our family, one, two, three, four, five kids through that space of time. And we had five kids in six years. And so by 2000, from 2004 to 2008 or nine, we had those five kids started triathlon. Did my first Ironman in 2008 and that’s when the economy crashed and we lost everything through 08 and through 08 and 11. It was kind of the greatest gift that I’ve ever been given was to have them knock on my door take away my home leave us with nothing broken homeless because it was that it was that time where I like hit the reset button and said okay nobody’s coming and Sonny and I we linked

We have an opportunity right now. We don’t have to think or choose to quit our job or not. It was, we don’t have one and we can chase an entrepreneur or a dream. And we just did everything we could to put food on the table, side jobs and cleaning construction sites at night. And during that whole time, we just started to raise money for charity and do these triathlon projects. And I became a triathlon coach and just started to build, um, build that brand and that business, and then it led to the iron cowboy brand, which led to everything we’re doing now.

Matt Mulcock:
So it sounds like that was almost the financial equivalent of being wheeled out with the knees, kind of this turning point. It sounds like there’s kind of a theme there for you of just saying like, there’s another moment in my life that I can turn one way or the other. And so, cause you talk about this in your book when the repo man’s out in your front yard and you kind of have this exchange with him, would you say that was another, again, kind of like this, it sounds like you’re saying that there’s another big life turning point for you.

James Lawrence:
Yeah, you do not forget the moment they knock on your door and take away your home and the repo man’s driveway peeking in your garage, waiting for you to move your vehicle so they can take it. Those are again, defining moments and there’s people still today, we’re in 2024 in the time of this recording, there’s still people today that are being victims from 2008, still today. And there’s still victims from when COVID happened and there’s still victims from all these major life events.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah.

James Lawrence:
And I just choose to not be in that victim hood. And I try to find the opportunity and growth. And the, the economic crash in Oh, eight changed my life. The shutdown of COVID changed my life. Both those opportunities tragic and crushed so many people. And at a certain point in time, you just have to go, okay, that happened. And now what do we do to turn the corner and turn it into a gift?

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. So, uh, James, when you, you said you had the, you know, the first, uh, marathon getting wheeled out, this was a turning point and then you started getting the new, did the watch party. At what point did you start thinking, I’m not just going to start doing and getting into this as a hobby, but I’m going to go try to break some world records, like you’re, if I remember correctly from your book, you were saying. Your first attempt was or your first kind of thought was, I’m going to go break the world record in regards to how many Ironmans are completed in a year. That was your first thought. Is that right?

James Lawrence:
A little bit, a little bit easier than that. Um, didn’t, didn’t know where I was physically, what was possible. And so I tackled the half Ironman world record. I wanted to see what was possible. And we ended up doing 22 half Ironmans and 30 weeks, all official events. And that was to try and give a damn project. And that was, you know, it’s interesting when you’re, when you’re on a journey and doing something, I challenge people to dream big all the time, right? Well, you can only dream as big.

Matt Mulcock:
Got it.

James Lawrence:
as your current knowledge and experience allows you to do so. And then as you continue to show up, that benchmark or that goalpost moves and more becomes possible. When you’re standing on top of a mountain, boom, you can see a new one you couldn’t see before because you’ve changed through experiences. And so we did that 2010 world record and that’s when I started coaching. And then the entrepreneur and marketer in me, it was like, okay, how do I grow this coaching business so I can make it a full-time?

Income for my family. I don’t want to do real estate anymore. I hate that. Mortgage brokerage is the least thankful job on the planet. Everybody thinks you’re screwing them over. And even though you’re giving them the best deal you possibly can. They always think there’s a massive hidden agenda behind there. And so I just wasn’t happy. But we were financially doing well but not happy. Then we lost everything. And then so after the 2010, I was like, okay, I want to build my coaching business. I’m really enjoying doing this. Um, what’s the full Ironman world record? And then in that two year span between the half Ironman and the full Ironman got my coaching program really going, did the half, uh, did the full Ironman world record, which we ended up doing 30 Ironmans through 11 countries in that year. Uh, really put us on the map and started to create some momentum for us. And then right near the end of that 30 world record was when the 50 concept was born.

Ryan Isaac:
Okay, wow, this is so much. I have some questions here. I’m curious, like I love the concept. I’m glad you said this, the concept of kind of building on your successes, you gotta show up, you gotta just start, you gotta create some momentum and you can’t see all the way until you’re just moving along. I’m curious, do you remember what you envisioned in those early days, what being an entrepreneur in this space you thought it was gonna be like? Do you remember what you were thinking at the time?

James Lawrence:
Yeah, for sure. Honestly, it was a thousand percent was just to build the coaching business. Uh, separate myself from the competition, create something that was like, Oh, he’s done that. That’s credible. I’ll go over here because I, I recognized, look, I’m not the fastest. I, I’m not a gifted swimmer. Uh, that kind of takes me out of the front of the pack immediately. Um, and I’m a mediocre runner. I’m a great cyclist. But I wasn’t contending in the pro ranks. I was also getting a little bit older. I had a family, couldn’t dedicate everything I needed to, but I really loved the community. I loved the industry. I loved all aspects of it. And so I was totally content and could see the vision in terms of like, okay, if I did group coaching and scale it, and I was starting to put together membership programs before it became huge online, way before social media. And so it was when it was kind of rolling on. And so.

I was doing everything I could and I think I was ahead of the curve a little bit in terms of all these kinds of things. It’s so funny today. I laugh at people on social media now and hope I’m going to offend some people I don’t care. It’s really my MO nowadays and I’m totally good with it. But I’m just so tired of these social influences that I want to be a speaker and a mentor and I’m like, you’re 25. What? Show me your body of work.

Ryan Isaac:
Let’s offend. Let’s go.

Matt Mulcock:
Let’s do it. Let’s do it.

James Lawrence:
And they’re like, well, I just have a story to tell. Oh, good, we all have a story to tell. But why do we care about your story? And I don’t even think I have a story to tell, but people are intrigued by it. And I think you keep doing things until the demand is so great. I mean, even right now, all these athletes, they contact me all the time, how do I get sponsorship sued to this project or that project? And I’m like, look, go to Under Armour’s website, click on their sponsorship link, and right there on their website, it says this, we are not accepting sponsorship requests. When you’re big enough, we’ll find you.

Ryan Isaac:
Your story will speak for itself. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah.

James Lawrence:
Right. We’ll find you. I’ve never been contacted by honor armor and that’s okay. I haven’t done anything big enough to be, to be part of that organization. And that’s fine. But it’s just, everybody nowadays is just like, hand out. What can you do for me? Hand out. What can you do? Hannah, what can you do for me? And I’m like, dude, don’t try to be an influencer. Do what your purpose and passion is and you will become an influencer. That would not be the path. Like I never set out to be an author. I never set out to be a speaker. I never set out to put on retreats.

It’s just those doors opened after a decade worth of me following my dreams, purposes of my passion. It just fell into it. And so to your question, what was my purpose early on? I’m a businessman. I was trying to coach athletes. I was trying to help people and all these other doors started opening up and this just escalated from there and trust me, I don’t think I’m better than anybody else. I’m just saying you guys have to take the right steps to get to where you want to be, it’s not gonna happen overnight, and you really have to build your credibility if you want to be a mouthpiece.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, you talk about this actually a lot in your book, James, with this mindset. And I don’t know if the exact wording is correct here, but throughout your book, you talk a lot about this, like step-by-step, nothing I’m doing is magical. It’s kind of what you’re saying now is like, and you use this term, I think a lot throughout, like just step-by-step is kind of what you’re, what you’re alluding to now as well, um, which very different from what we do, but the principle is still there when it comes to investing and everything that we talk about with our clients.

Our client base is very similar to you. They’re dentists. And so there’s, you know, there’s, there’s some similarities there. Not at all. I’m curious as far as, so you did the 50, you completed that. And then kind of, let’s fast forward a little bit to COVID and then you getting this idea to take this even further. Where, how did that come about with, with doing the conquer 100 and you said something on your website that I saw. And also in another interview you did where you said 75 didn’t scare me. So you decided to go further to kind of talk about how you decided to level this up.

James Lawrence:
Yeah, just real quick, I want to address the comment before about the kind of the momentum and the steps that have to be taken and people are looking to miss those steps and you know, we just had a retreat here in Utah at Sundance, which was just so transformational, both for coaches and attendees, we learned just as much from the people that come and the experiences that we have. But one of the main messages was you have to be willing to do the things that aren’t sexy and it’s doing those basic things over and over and over. And in fact, the secret to success is being okay with the monotony, the things that are just so boring. And I saw a thing on Instagram the other day where, um, arguably the greatest shooter in basketball history is Steph Curry, not the greatest player, the best shooter, purest shooter. Still today in his career where he’s at, he still does 500 shots a day. And someone would go, why would the best shooter in history? Still be working on the basics and the fundamentals. Well, because he gets it and he understands that that’s what’s got them there. And in order to keep you there, you have to still do those same things. Right. And that’s, that’s what I see a lot today is people want to fast forward and skip those things and they either want to get to the sexy part of whatever the lifestyle is or whatever, but they’re not willing to do the unsexy things that it requires in order to do that. So then, yeah,

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, I’m just, yeah, sorry. I’m just still sitting on the, I think the words you said was the key to success is just being okay with the monotony. And, uh, it makes me wonder, you can talk about this separately. Um, I want to keep going with Matt’s question, but it just makes me wonder about that end point. You’re a coach, a speaker, you’re well known, you’re connected, you’re a writer. Um, you do these retreats. Is that more rewarding than the grind along the way or do you have like a fondness for those that monotony in those years and like Marathon 39 Somewhere in minnesota like in an indoor pool or something like, you know Do you have a fondness for the that does it equal the end that monotony?

James Lawrence:
Yeah, man, I, that’s, this is a great question. And I love both. Like I love what I’m doing now. Um, and, and just the, just a pure satisfaction of watching someone go through a process change, grow, and just like with our retreats in two and a half days come out a completely different person, uh, that, that fills my bucket beyond, beyond words, um, and then there’s time when I look back and I’m like.

Oh man, I wish I was on a trail right now, just grinding and suffering and trying to win the conversation inside my head and just, you know, the camaraderie that comes with the team behind you and the other athletes and the personal challenges that we set up. I mean, we, we joke all the time, me and the two wingmen, those are the two guys that were with me the most. Um, they’re just, they’re dying for me to come up with something new and whatnot, just to escape, you know simplicity and get back into grind mode and that suffering and whatnot just because we really thrive there we love there we love what we learn there when we’re in it we want to get out of it but when we’re not there you know it’s just this beautiful dance that i think we love to do and we also miss at the same time.

Matt Mulcock:
We can come back to my question because I’m curious. You, I was looking through your website and one of the things that you, you said, as you’re talking here about motivation and like what’s driving you, your purpose, one of the things that’s on there is you were mocked. You were mocked when you came up with this original idea, the 50, 50. Where did, where did that kind of play into this as far as your motivation behind this?

James Lawrence:
Yeah, I don’t use negative energy or hate. Like I think being driven by hate is a negative space and it can fool you for a second, but then it’s not gonna serve you long-term. And I now recognize when I get mocked or ridiculed for having a goal or a quest or whatever it is, that’s the barometer for me, letting me know that it’s the right goal because for me, it’s always the next natural step in my progression. But for someone else that’s tuning in the middle of the journey, doesn’t know the whole scope. And so they’re looking at it going, Oh, this is where I am today. Meaning them. I can’t possibly do that. Where, where I am on my journey. And that’s the problem is everybody’s busy comparing themselves against where they are in somebody else is not recognizing the body of work that maybe went into it. And so, yeah, I would have been the person.

When I attempted that formal fun run, had someone come out and said, I’m gonna do 100 consecutive Ironmans, I’d have been like, haha, that guy’s an idiot. Like, no chance, right? But I now don’t care what anybody thinks because they can’t possibly have an opinion because they haven’t had a front row seat to the experience over the past 20 years of where we’ve developed this belief system to what’s possible and what’s not. And that definition for everybody is absolutely different.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, I love that. That’s an amazing answer. I’m curious, again, coming back to this idea of you leveling up to the hundred, you thought 50, not, you know, okay, we did that. Let’s double it. Where did that come into play?

James Lawrence:
Yeah, so when we set out to do the 50 again, which was 50 Ironmans, 50 days throughout 50 states, the purpose of that was to find out how many consecutive Ironmans I could do. That was the challenge because we had just done 30 in a year and I was watching the pioneers in this space. One of the oldest pioneers is Terry Fox, a guy with cancer that ran across the country. If you don’t know his story, go watch a 30 for 30 about him. Unbelievable story. And then more of a modern day one was Dean Karnassas, who did 50 marathons in 50 days in 50 states. And just an incredible ultra runner. And I saw what he was doing and he had put out a book and he was on TV and all these things. And I was like, man, if he did that with marathons, what would happen if I did that with an Iron Man? And so that’s how this whole thing came to be. And we started to put it all together. And then…

Once we started the 50, it was chaos, confusion, logistics. United States is enormous and four hours of sleep a night trying to get 12,000 calories a day. We wrecked the motor home. I mean, just insane chaos every single day, new environment. I get the question all the time, what was harder, the 50, the 100? And there’s definitely elements of the 50 that is way harder than the 100. They were different, but just very, very different. And, man they’re both terrifying. Anyways. Um, so, so when the pandemic hit and the calendar got wiped clean and I had no more speaking, no more racing, no more coaching, cause we coached for live events, gone, all that disappeared. Right. And so again, like any, uh, terrible traumatic situation, I try to find the good and I’m like, okay, well, I’ve always wanted to redo the 50 cause we made mistakes on the 50, we weren’t perfect. And, um, I’m the, I’m a personality that like, okay, I want to do that again and can I do it better?

Ryan Isaac:
I’m gonna go to bed.

James Lawrence:
I didn’t want to redo the 50. It was five years later, maybe six. My kids were older. You’ve got high school kids now. One that’s a senior graduating. I can’t really displace my family and do the 50 again. So then I thought, okay, what if I removed the chaos, the logistics, the enormity of the United States? Could I double it and make that a possibility? So the first project was called Redefine Impossible. So I thought to myself, okay, if I doubled it, could we not only redefine impossible, could we define logic? And so I started to put the team in place, put a plan that would remove the chaos, remove the logistics. Now I had an opportunity to find out how many consecutive I could do without all that chaos and confusion.

Ryan Isaac:
I’m curious about the team. Can you talk about that? What is that? Uh, who’s included in a team on a project like that?

James Lawrence:
Yeah, so on the 50, we had kind of the four main characters was Casey and Aaron, the two wingmen, and then myself and my wife. And then obviously there’s a documentary that’s on Amazon Prime, so we had a small film crew, but they’re not there to help you. They’re just there to capture what’s happening. So they’re typically more of a nuisance than anything else. And then just anybody that would help us along the way. And so really the team at the time was Casey, Aaron, Sunny, and then obviously my kids. And so when we started to put the team back together, one of the key, key pieces of this puzzle was the individual who does all my body work and all my recovery. And his name’s Hayden, and he actually works on a lot of high profile NFL players. And I went to him and I said, look, this is what I’m thinking about doing. I won’t do this without you. And he said, well, my season’s over in this date, and I start again in this date. And so that window for us was March 1st through June. And that’s when we did it. And it was a huge disaster because of that, but also the greatest gifts came from it. And so that’s why we settled on the timeframe that we did it on. And like I said, 75 didn’t scare me. And that’s why we settled on 100. I believed in my mind through the experience with the team that we were assembling that 100 was possible.

Matt Mulcock:
I mean, Ryan and I both are sitting here just like even thinking about that, but you said something earlier about this conversation in your mind. And I’d imagine there’s some points throughout these, both the 50 and the hundred, like you said, both presented their different challenges. I’m thinking of the 50, by the way, even driving 50, the 50 states in 50 days is, is a lot. Uh, but you talked about this conversation in your mind. What things were you saying to yourself? What did you come back to in those really low points? I’d imagine there was several, I mean, you talk about in your book, even during the 50, that there were times that you had said like, I’m done, I can’t do this. I’m sure that went through your head many times. What was it that was driving you during those low points?

James Lawrence:
Yeah, I just want to touch real quick on the driving through the night and getting to the next state to do another Ironman the next day. I mean, that’s the key to success in these anything in racing and endurance is recovery. And for seven weeks, we had no recovery averaging less than four hours of sleep. And I was sleeping on the floor of a moving van every night to get ready for the next 140.6 miles. And yeah, the conversations you have with yourself start to amplify as fatigue sets in, but you know, we’re, we’re cruising through each and every state and that mileage is starting stacking up. I mean, when we started the project for the 50, it was 7,030 consecutive miles that we had ahead of us that had to be done human propelled. That doesn’t include the thousands of miles that were driven in between. Um, and trying to recover. And so, yeah, you start to have those, those conversations with yourself. Um, and truly the secret to life is about winning those conversations. Nobody talks to you as an individual the amount that we talk to ourselves. The reality is there’s always two conversations going. There’s a positive voice and a negative voice. Both of them are important and we get to choose who we listen to. Because really it’s just us that’s having the conversation. And then the reality hits when you think, well, I would never be friends with someone that talks to me the way I talk to myself. And so why do we, why do we tolerate that? Like both of you are just like, yeah, why I would never ever be friends with someone that talks to me, right? You’re a bit, and, uh, and so, and so why do we allow it? And so I’ve just over time learned through experience and winning those moments. Okay. I get to choose who I listen to.

Ryan Isaac:
I’m so mean sometimes to myself. Yeah.

James Lawrence:
And through experience, you recognize that there’s zero value in listening to the negative or the bully inside of our heads. And only good comes from listening to that guy, positive guy in our brain. And typically the positive guys are intuition. And the intuition is usually right. And the, the bully inside of our head wants us to seek comfort. And unfortunately, if we seek comfort at all times, eventually our only option will be discomfort. But if we seek discomfort on purpose, we will always have options for comfort or discomfort.

Ryan Isaac:
I feel like I need a break to just like sit with some of this stuff and think about it for a minute. Like I want to journal a little bit on this now. Just on this theme, can you recall like the dark time of the 50? Like the day you’re the low point, your voice was winning, the bad voice was winning and you’re like, I’m done. Do you like what was that dark time like? Probably many.

Matt Mulcock:
That low point, yeah.

James Lawrence:
Yeah, it’s interesting. Yeah, it’s in the, it’s in the, it’s in the book. It’s in the documentary. Um, but it just, it just kind of like highlights it, right. It doesn’t go into tons of detail, but I know the exact moment. I can, I can even see it in my mind today. Um, it was in Connecticut. It was on day 30. I was on the bike ride. I had very little support. I think there was two riders with me that day. Um, and. You know, we’d already done 30, which was at the time, a world record for a year and that I had set or broken. And the enormity and logistics of doing one in every different state. And these were keeping, just know these weren’t official events. I get that. Um, but add the complexity of putting on the events. Right? So now you’ve got that on top of it all. And then you’ve got five between ages, five and 12. Um, that are along there on, uh, along with you that we haven’t talked about yet. Um, and so I’m in Connecticut, I’m on day 30, um, I’m in the United States, I’m in the United States, I’m in the United States. I’m in the United States.

Ryan Isaac:
Unreal.

James Lawrence:
We’re totally failing in the fundraising department. There’s already been some controversy in terms of a bike crash that I was in and we were pushed indoors because of hurricane conditions in Mississippi. Lightning, very dangerous lightning, weather warnings do not go outside. So tons of controversy around that. It’s around day 30, I’m in Connecticut, it was a hilly course, I’m exhausted and I remember just getting off my bike.

I found a little small patch of grass. It was a median. I just got off my bike and I just like slumped into a ball and just started to cry. And it was just this moment where I just, it was like melting into the ground. And I was like, it’s not worth it. This is, I’m killing myself. We’re not getting the benefits that we want to. And that bully was just like attacking me. And he was loud and I was like, yep, you’re right, man. I’m not ready for this. And you know, we start to believe and agree and validate all of that things because had I listened to that voice guess what I got to go home I got to go to my bed I got comforts on the other side of it and so I’m like man this is a I love where all of this is going because I’m broken and then and then I heard a voice and that voice was like dude you just need to be perfect for one second and I’m like what he’s like I know it’s hard I know it’s dark

I know you’re filled with anxiety. I know you’re depressed. I know you’re in incredible amounts of pain and I know we’re spiraling right now. But I know you can get up and be perfect for one second. And in that moment, I had like this rebirth and I stood up and I shed every excuse and I was always wearing these yellow glasses and I put these yellow glasses on. And in that moment, I switched and I went from this sack of mush James Lawrence on the ground into this Iron Cowboy character. And I was like, I can be perfect for one second. And for the next hour, I focused on one second at a time. And I was like, I can turn the pedals over one time. Did it. I didn’t die. Turned the pedals over one time. Didn’t die again. I knew it I had covered the next 56 miles got to the end of that bike ride and I was ready to tackle the run and that was the moment where everything changed and a big piece of that too was like I was I was trying to carry the weight of everybody and everything in the team and I was like look dude you got a team trust your team just give that let them do their job do what you do best stay in your lane and as a unit you guys will thrive. And if you take the times from day 30 to day 50, those last 20, our average time were the fastest of all 50. And on our final and 50th day, I dipped under seven miles on the marathon, did an 11, 10 Ironman and smashed the world record doing 50 consecutive Ironman.

Ryan Isaac:
Can you see the goosebumps in my arm? I don’t know if it’s like, I’m like just feeling this story.

James Lawrence:
And that power and that momentum was built off of one second. One second. And in that moment where I stopped listening to the bully and I started to listen to the positive side of things. And it just took that moment. It was a rebirth. And I literally put those glasses on and I’m like, I’m the Iron Cowboy. James Lawrence is dead right now. The Iron Cowboy is here. And do not mess with that, because that dude’s a bad, bad man. And that’s kind of a secret to life. Like you have to be able to create this alter ego that isn’t necessarily who you are at all times. But when you’re back in the corner and it’s dark and you’ve lost everything and they knocked on your door, they took away your home, like what are you gonna do? Are you gonna stay a pile of mush on the ground? Or are you gonna put on your uniform and you’re gonna go kick someone’s ass? Like that’s the decision you have to make. Like am I a victim or am I gonna be the victor? And you get to choose who that is in your storyline. And nobody’s coming. You gotta make those decisions, but you absolutely have that choice, am I a victim or am I victor?

Matt Mulcock:
It’s amazing. Uh, James, I’m curious, were you, this is maybe going to sound weird, but were you born with this mindset? Do you think from a young age you had this something? Let’s be honest. We, we hear this, Ryan and I were joking before, and I’m sure you’ve heard this before when we, when with someone like you, it’s like, and then we mean this with all the love and respect of like, you’re, you’re kind of a psycho. We’d like to do this, right? You kind of have that like psycho-ness to you again, in a good way, but like, were you born with that or was this kind of developed over the course of your life? Like are there childhood memories you can think of? Like I was just different. Like you, you know, you talk about being undefeated wrestler. Again, was this something you were born with this mindset? Or are you, are you sitting here saying like, no, Ryan and I, you got, you guys could do this where, where did that come from this mindset you have? No, I never would. I haven’t run a marathon in the totality of my life.

Ryan Isaac:
I don’t want to by the way, but good question.

James Lawrence:
Yeah. And marathons are cute. I do Ironmans. You’re asking if it’s nurture or nature in it.I love that. Basically, yeah. Like, were you, did you always think you were different? Or is this something you developed or something snapped and you’re created in your life? You’re like, Oh, I can like cultivate this. Or were you just born different? Yeah, no, not born different at all. In fact, as after I finished the 50, you know, all the headlines came out and Red Bull declared I was one of the 50 fittest freaks in the world at the time. Success magazine said I was the most enduring man on the planet. Red Bull, when it comes to endurance, it was on stuples. So like all these headlines started to come out and I was doing these events and, you know, rated the best speaker, most booked at the time and still am and just all these crazy things. And so I kept getting the question like, okay, so what separates you from everybody else? What’s the genetic makeup that you got when you were born? Like, what’s that gift? And I was like, no.

There isn’t one. And they’re like, no, there has to be because no, this is impossible. And so I’m like, OK. So they convinced me that I was different or special. And so I was like, OK, I’m going to go get some epigenetic testing done. I’m going to get some gene tests done. I’m going to like. So I did all these tests, like just try to figure out what made me different or special. And it’s one of my favorite jokes from stage. I tell it all the time. Like I say, yeah, I got that. I got the I got the results. It was in this manila envelope. And I said, I sit all my kids down and I say, get ready.

I’m about to tell you the gift I gave you at birth. You’re welcome. And then I proceed to open the manila envelope. I pull out the results. And the very first headline says, congratulations, you’re an average white Canadian. And I’ll jump on the side, but the reality is the test came back. The results came back and I do not have a single genetic advantage over anybody else. This is all built over time of showing up, being consistent, and just really putting in the work. And in fact, I look at my, like I don’t have any, I don’t have any like extraordinary, we all have trauma, but I don’t have any extraordinary trauma. I was never beat, I was never any of these things. I had a very good upbringing. In fact, one of the questions I get asked a lot of time, like, what are you running from? Like, what are you trying to get to? Guys, I had a very privileged upbringing. Like we went on family vacations every year, there was always food on the table. Like, I don’t know what to tell you. And so my answer to that always is like, I’m running towards potential. Like I’m not running towards anything. But, but in my upbringing, I looked at, um, my dad and he was a blue collar firefighter worker, worked super hard, like a stoic man. Um, you work, you, you get a job, you work for 40 years, you don’t make excuses, you retire, you take your pension. That’s life. And then my mom was this like sweet homemaker. Birthdays were special vacation, holidays were amazing. Loved all of us for our unique qualities and still dreaming into us. And I was like, okay, my mom’s kind of airy-fairy and the head in the clouds, which was kind of like me. And then my dad’s like hardworking and that seems like way too much work. And I didn’t want to be like either of those things, but I’m like, what if I combined hard work with a dream? Could that turn into something really cool? And then I had this very, incredible grandmother who immigrated from Poland. And this was back in like way early in the days. And I was born in 76 and I think it was like 78 or nine even. And maybe I was one when she started. But she started with a network marketing company called Nature Sunshine. And she was one of the first distributors in Canada. And she was literally in the basement of, of the, one of the owners and packing caps compills that they would then go, go hawk to people.

And I’m telling you, this is before internet was for everything. Like I’m talking this, this Polish lady, high heels, lipstick and a babushka knocking on doors, fax machines, like just slipping these pills. Ended up being the number one distributor for the company for 40 years, died at 90, still, still bringing in a massive check. Um, and I watched that and I went, okay, that’s the dream. That’s the hard worker. And I watched her just thrive.

Ryan Isaac:
Thanks for watching!

James Lawrence:
And she created so many opportunities for us and doors open. And I was like, I want to, I want to do that. Um, but didn’t really love the network marketing space and, um, it wasn’t my thing, but I was a big dreamer and I knew how to work. And, and ultimately that’s what got us to this point. And that was my upbringing. And so all of those things, my dad being stoic and blue collar and no excuses and be a man and my mom being the dreamer and then watching my grandma put the two together, I was like, that’s it. These are all the pieces of the puzzle. And it was so crazy because my grandmother was, again, way ahead of her curve and personal development. And I remember, like, I had cassette tapes of positive affirmations that I would play as I was sleeping. And, you know, to be able to wake up and all night, I was getting hammered with subconscious positive things and all this stuff. And it’s really my grandmother who was like 30 years before her time really understand. I’m talking like Les Brown and Tony Robbins’ first ever release and you know, it’s chicken soup for the soul. I mean, all of it. Like we, my grandma lived it and consumed it and she bought every tape and did every training and she gave them to me because I was the only one that was like, I want that. I believe in that. And that, so to answer your question, it’s, it wasn’t born of it. And it’s just something I developed over time. And I attribute a lot of my mental toughness to those wrestling days.

Matt Mulcock:
Thanks for watching!

James Lawrence:
I wasn’t great when I started. Like I was terrible, like worse than terrible. But I just, I loved it for some reason. And I just continued to show up. And like you said, by the end I was exceptional. And I started to learn, I’d look back and go, okay, you can start out terrible at something and end up exceptional if you fill the gaps in between and do the work that it takes. And again, I don’t have any genetic fit. Like I’m actually non-athletic and have had to really work and develop that skill set.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, not a statement I was expecting to hear today. Non-athletic. Wow. What was your grandma’s name, by the way? Really fast. I just want to hear her name.

James Lawrence:
Lily Dingwall.

Ryan Isaac:
Man that’s so cool. It’s my daughter’s name. That’s amazing. Lily. Grandma Lily.

Matt Mulcock:
Lily Dingwall. It’s a good name.

James Lawrence:
It was actually my second oldest daughter is named Lily because she was born on my grandmother’s birthday.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, it’s my second oldest too. That’s cool. Awesome.

Matt Mulcock:
Very cool. Uh, James, you said you’re running towards your potential, not running away from something you’re running towards something. First of all, I love that mindset. So why do you assume I’m running from something? What if I’m running to, I love that. But, uh, what is, are you still doing that running towards your potential? Like, what is that? What does that look like?

James Lawrence:
Yeah, it was interesting after the conquer 100. Um, I mean, so many things happened. Uh, I broke my back and a bike crash on day 59 had to do 41 Ironman’s with a broken back, um, the cracked L five. Um, and then from the concussion and all the other things that I was doing and the PTSD and how powerful the mind is to protect yourself, I came out of the conquer 100, like with a broken brain and it took me two years of neurological pathway rewiring in order to feel normal again. I didn’t think I’d ever race again or kind of function at a high level. And actually within the past three months, I went and got a brain scan done and I have no, not one sign of past trauma or concussions. And so for me, I’m like, I put on 30 pounds after the Conquer 100 and I’m now back to where I have about five, six more to go. I’m gonna do the world championships this year again and try to compete. Not overall, just in my category. Um, in six weeks from now, I’m headed to South Africa to do the tour to France and mountain biking, which is an eight day mountain bike stage race in South Africa called the Cape Epic. Um, we put on one of the hardest full distance Ironman races here in Utah called starvation. I’m going to tow the line of that one in August and try to win it. Um, I’m going to the swim run world championships in Sweden. I’m going back to Kona this year, um, to guide a young man with down syndrome to compete in the, not disabled, but in the special needs category. I’m going to try to go under three hours in the New York Marathon in November. I’ve got some big goals and I’m approaching 15. I think my athletic potential is still untapped.

Ryan Isaac:
That’s so cool. That’s so, that feels so good to hear that. Yeah, that’s so cool. Yeah, it worked out. Yeah, that’s so cool. Which, just curious, out of all those events, is there one, which one are you most excited for? Are you scared for any of them? Like which one like intimidates you, if any?

Matt Mulcock:
There’s levels to this, Ryan. There’s levels to this. I went to the gym this morning. That, you know, I worked out this morning.

James Lawrence:
None of them intimidate me. I’m scared of all of them only because I’m trying to push new limits for me. And I, I scared, it’s not the right word, but it’s a, it’s a nervous excitement. Um, as I know I’m more, I’m more nervous about the work that it’s going to take to get there because I know what that looks like. Um, but I’m really excited about all of them and they’re all very unique, different challenges. I mean, eight day mountains bike stage raise to a mountain Ironman to a swim run where you, you know, run 40 miles and bike 10, uh, no run 30 run 40 miles and swim six, um, all broken up into different legs. It’s actually a series called Otillo and that’s the Swedish word. It’s actually pronounced Ootulu, which stands for Island Island. And so you run in your wetsuit and you swim in your shoes and you’re tethered to a partner. Um, it’s, it’s a, it’s a wild race. It takes all day. It’s so fun. Um, and so, and then we’re gonna, we did, we did a race across America a couple, I want to do a couple of big bike challenges as well. Yeah, I just love it. None of them scare me, but it’s just, I’m more nervous and I just want to perform again. Cause the 100 was just flat out suffering. Slow, drudging, suffering, long. And I want to get back to the exciting racing power moments.

Ryan Isaac:
Beautiful.

Matt Mulcock:
This is amazing, James. We need to wrap this up. Be respectful of your time. I am curious. I have two more questions. Number one, how do you find balance in your life? You mentioned your kids. You’ve got five kids. A wonderful wife sounds super supportive. Uh, love the stories about her. I wish she was here so we could talk to her about her experiences through this as well. Uh, but can you just kind of talk about a little bit how you found balance in your life? How do you, the identity of being a father, being a husband, obviously who you are as an athlete. How have you found that balance?

James Lawrence:
Yeah, balance doesn’t exist, man. Well, I think just people have the wrong perception of what balance is. And I think we need to replace the word balance with attentive. And it’s really about when you’re with someone, are you present and attentive for that moment? Because I’ve got 14-age girls and they don’t want 33% of my time, right? Like, no, but when I am with them, they want all of my attention.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, I was just, I didn’t feel like I was going to come.

James Lawrence:
And so, and really, life requires you to be on balance at certain times, depending on what you’re focused on. And when, the problem is with balance and imbalance is people get out of balance for too long. And now that’s when it becomes a problem. And so you just need to always constantly be doing checks and balances into where you are in your life, what’s your priority, what are you growing, seasons for all things, right? But we prioritize family. I do something with Jesse Itzel, that’s called the Big Ass Calendar Club, and put it on the wall and we, family events go on there first. And then racing, no, business goes on there second, my speaking events, then I fill in the holes with racing, and then any other. Time around that is free time. And then I can look at my calendar. I’m like, okay, family stuff’s in there. Business stuff’s in there. Personal hobby stuff’s in there. Great. But it’s not an equal percentage, right?

Matt Mulcock:
Very cool. Ryan, do you have anything else before we wrap this up? I could talk for another hour.

Ryan Isaac:
No, I’m just like, I’m enthralled. I could, I could ask so many questions. I’m already thinking that there’s an entire podcast episode that we’ll do, Matt, where we dissect like quotes from this one. Like seriously, like, yeah, there’s exactly. Yeah. So wrap it up, man. This is

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, from James. Yeah.

James Lawrence:
Thank you. Let’s do a post event podcast.

Ryan Isaac:
Love to 100%. That’d be awesome. That’d be really cool. Thank you.

Matt Mulcock:
I would love it. That’d be amazing. If you’d be willing to James, we would, we would love to. Um, so speaking of the event, we’ll wrap up with this. We have the Dennis money summit coming up in June. James there on cowboy here is going to be our main stage keynote speaker. And if this interview did not get you jacked up for that, I don’t know what else will. Uh, but James, I want to wrap up with this, the theme of our event being learn to live your rich life. And, and just like with your. You talk about marketing, you know, we, we very intentionally wanted to make, or use that terminology, uh, when we talk about a rich life. So I’m curious as we final question here, what does that mean to you? You hear that living a rich life. What does that mean to James Lawrence?

James Lawrence:
Yeah, when I hear the word rich, I think of just like, okay, money. But when I think of the word wealthy, I think of wealth being a more well-rounded piece of the puzzle, meaning financial stability, meaning rich relationships with your family, meaning a very powerful friend group, meaning experiences that you get to go have. I think that the purpose of life isn’t to be happy or rich.

I think it’s to be wealthy and joyful. And to me, there’s a big difference between those two things. And that’s what I strive to be. In order to get there, you have to be willing to sacrifice work, put yourself in hard situations, learn to manage the conversations you’re having with yourself, not listening to the bully, but listening to your intuition. And then really not care what anybody else thinks about the decisions that you’re making if you’re showing up every day with honesty and integrity. That to me is living that wealthy, joyful life.

Matt Mulcock:
Love it. James, this is awesome. Uh, everyone, thank you so much for listening. Ryan, thank you for being here as well. James, we cannot thank you enough. Uh, if you want to come hang out with this man, uh, and hear him live on stage, uh, the Dennis Money Summit, please check it out. Denn Again, if this doesn’t give you an idea of how amazing this, this is going to be just James, there’s going to be more beyond this, uh, but I know for me and Ryan, I think I speak for you when I say.

Ryan Isaac:
Man, thank you.

Matt Mulcock:
Again, not only how grateful we are for you, James, for being here, but how excited we are to hear your words on stage. We’re excited. So thank you so much for being here. Again, thanks everyone for listening until next time. Bye bye.

Practice Management