How Do You Know If You Should Hire An Associate? – Episode #706

On this episode of The Dentist Money Show, Matt and Christine explore one of the toughest parts of running a dental practice: hiring and managing associates. They discuss why many associateships fail to lead to ownership, the challenges that make partnerships tricky, and what dentists should consider before bringing on an associate. Tune in to learn how to navigate the challenges of hiring an associate.

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Podcast Transcript

Matt Mulcock : Welcome to the Dentist money show where we help Dentist make smart financial decisions I’m a guy named Matt and I am here with the wonderful Magnificent what other words can we use for her our practice strategist Chris illustrious Christine Uhen Chris. How are you?

Christine : illustrious. I’m a girl called Chris. That’s right. I’m great. Good to be here.

Matt Mulcock : First of all, love having you here. I love having you on the team. And honestly, as we were talking about this over the last couple of weeks of doing this, we’re doing another show and you’re in our content meetings. Now I’m just like, so excited to have you on our team as our practice strategist. We’re just beginning, like, honestly, we’re just scratching the surface. I think of what this is going to be and how much more value this can add to the dental community through dentists advisors, but anyway, just excited to have you on the show and have you part of the team.

Christine : Always good to be here and I am too happy to be a part of this team.

Matt Mulcock : And one of the, like from a content perspective, honestly, what gets me the most excited. Cause I love content. We love it here. It’s the foundation of our business is having you on our team. How much more, ⁓ like the, content and the education we can expand into. And that’s kind of what today is, is Ryan and I could do, could talk about this stuff from our perspective, from the personal finance perspective. And we’re going to talk about that for sure. But we couldn’t, we could not bring the expertise and the angle that you can bring. And so we’re really excited about this particular show, which is when do you know, if you’re ready to bring on an associate, what to expect when bringing on an associate and then what could go wrong. And I kind of ways to avoid that. This is a huge conversation questions around this all the time. Chris, I want to get from your perspective. You were a practice consultant for 30 years. Where would you rank this particular topic as far as like how important it is to get right and then how often this came up in your career?

Christine : Well, it’s the hottest topic right now, I think, in terms of, you know, looking at where do we go next as a dentist and thinking about I’ve built a career, I’m doing well, I’ve got my private practice, I want to stay in private practice, but what can I do? How do I do this? Historically, over my career, associateships have not worked out, I’m not going to say failed, but have not moved into partnership eight out of 10 times in my history. So this is a constant ongoing conversation. And again, I think the gift that we can bring now is the experience that we’ve been through. We’ve had clients go through and we’ve seen it done poorly well enough to be often enough to say, Hey, we can do better. And there is like many things. And again, with the Dentist advisors thought process of let’s get prepared. Let’s be organized. Let’s actually take a look at motivation back to our why of why we invest, why we are in business, why we make money, what does money mean to us? The same contemplation is required of why am I even having this conversation? Why am I even thinking about this? Because somebody else is doing it, because I read an article about it, because I heard this great podcast that said, hey, we should talk about bringing in an associate. That’s the wrong reason to do it. So there’s data as well as the emotion.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah.

Christine : Side of things and the emotional side of why am I really pursuing this. So top five in terms of ⁓ a historic perspective, but right now it’s probably a top one or two in terms of topics in dentistry. Really hot topic.

Matt Mulcock : Really hot topic. I’m so glad you brought up the stat of a 75 to 80 % failure rate. just did an interview on this exact topic, more specific to hiring. This is with Bob and Brighton, co-founders of the hiring pros. Incredible. They are such a good team. They do such an incredible job of helping to reduce that risk of that failure rate.

Christine : Fantastic group.

Matt Mulcock : In that show we talked about this exact thing and here’s my theory right now I want to I want to throw out there Chris and get your perspective I think it’s such an egregious failure rate of 75 to 80 percent like it’s so unbelievably high to me that I think it’s almost like It and because I think most dentists know this the failure rate is so high. It’s kind of pervasive It’s kind of out there now in the dental space. It kind of feels like because it’s so high people have just kind of they just kind of expect it and they just kind of like, well, why would I try? It’s almost like, why would I try to like change that? I’m just going to basically hire knowing it’s probably going to fail. It’s going to take me to, I’ve heard dentists say this, like it’s going to take me two or three tries. I know that the failure rate is so high. Like, it almost, they’re defeated before they even begin. Have you experienced that with that failure rate?

Christine : And so there’s a couple of things related to the fear. The expectation it’s not gonna work, so I’m going in with the kinda cavalry attitude that I’m not gonna work to make it happen. The other is the fear of I can’t compete. What do I have that these newer students or younger doctors, can’t, again, the statement I hear from doctors, solo practitioners, private practice, I can’t compete with the DSOs, I can’t compete with the messaging that the students are getting in school about you should go to these bigger group practices. I can’t compete on compensation. I can’t give them more. I can’t offer them enough of a package to compete with some of these bigger corporate entities. And that’s true. mean, there was some truth to that of the fact that from a dollar standpoint, they may not be able to match that offer.

Matt Mulcock : Sure. Sure.

Christine : What I’m hoping we can show people today is there’s a lot more to it. Again, how many associates leave those corporate offices? They’re my favorite associates to hire for private practice, right? Because they’ve literally cut their teeth already on their first couple of career mistakes. Their speed is up. They’ve been driven by directives. And so to get that chance to go, is there something else?

Matt Mulcock : Yep.

Christine : I think that’s exactly the positioning that a private practice dentist can say is we have something else more so than just a financial package. but I think that’s part of their fears. Who want to come work for me? We’re doing that kind of research of what can you offer community wise, time wise, dental services, the freedom to do what they want. So there’s a lot of marketing and understanding the story of a private practice solo practitioner.

Matt Mulcock : Holy Yeah.

Christine : That may be exactly what a ⁓ younger doctor is looking for.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah. Chris. That’s so insightful. And I haven’t even thought about it like this until you just said that of what an opportunity. So you’re right. think most dentists are looking at it and saying, how do I compete? But I think what you just framed is way different in saying, what an opportunity I now have to let all of these big corporate groups train my next associate for me.

And so it’s just a matter of like, am I looking? So can you compete with a new dentist coming out of school compared to most of these DSOs on a lot of base packages and things? Probably not. Do you want to? I actually think you should be maybe shifting your focus a little bit to where am I actually going to get my, like what talent pool am I looking in? And that’s shifted quite a bit over the last few years. I want to say it’s something like, I’m going off the cuff. I believe it’s somewhere in the range of high fifties to low 60 % range now of new graduates going into DSOs right out of school. So like you said, cut their teeth.

Christine : Yeah, and I’m going off memory, which is just as risky as going off cuff, but I would say that’s absolutely true. Well, and there’s, either way, not to get wrapped up in the actual stats, but yes, a significant part of the graduating class are going into, we’ll just say group practices, we’ll call it that, larger opportunities because there’s signing bonuses and then there’s a retention bonus and then there’s a percentage. And then if they meet certain,

Matt Mulcock : Yep. Yep.

Christine : Production goals, there’s bonuses and the healthcare packages. I’ve even heard that some of these larger corporates are helping them reduce their debt, right, by the student loans. So things like that, that no, that’s anything that I would say a private practicing dentist should even try to compete with. yet there’s also, regardless of the pool, I’m not saying don’t look at dental schools, but my point is really crafting your story.

Matt Mulcock : Buy down their student loans. Yep. Yeah.

Christine : And having a little pride in it. I want you to shout, I want you to stand up straight and tall and go, heck yeah, I’ve got a great practice and here’s why, right? So that’s where I’m hoping dentists, solo practitioners will work toward that. So I think that’s also part of, that’s also if you talk to anybody like Bob and his company, they are looking for a match. So they are looking for the person that’s, there are people out there that want what you have.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah. Yeah. I think this is. Yeah. This is such a, this is, I wasn’t planning on us going here, but I’m glad we started with this of again, what an opportunity, it does require a shift of mindset around who, what talent pools you’re looking in. if I’m an independent owner out there, a private practice owner, which we advocate for that to us, private practice ownership is the still the clearest path to, getting to work being optional.

Christine : That’s that’s the point. There’s enough of them out there.

Matt Mulcock : Sooner and doing it in a much more fulfilling way than going the corporate route. So we fully believe in this and I’m sitting here thinking as we go through this again, you’re going to have to shift your mindset of where you’re looking. but I actually think there’s an opportunity now, and this will continue to be the case to let these big corporate groups train your talent pool. And by the way, the ones that come out of there, though, like it might be a smaller group. But the ones that come out of there, they’re going to come out of there disenchanted with what like they’re going to be highly trained for sure. And they’re going to have some things that are going to be way better than, a new grad possibly, or there to be advantages there. but they’re going to most likely the ones that are going to want to come to independent from there are going to be disenchanted with the corporate route, which is going to make them even more motivated. Like there’s just a huge opportunity here for, think for private practice owners.

Christine : Yeah, those that are disenchanted in the corporate are definitely your ideal target. Yeah, they’re looking for something else. And yes, they’ve got their speed. They’ve had their re-dos. They’ve understood how to do three hygiene checks if that’s legal in your state. And they’re hustling and bustling. So they’re not afraid of that. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock : Yes, yes. I can’t, I can’t help but think of my own career, not to make this about me, Chris. mean, you know how I go. I make everything about me. No. Um, well, you can make it about me, but I honestly, I’m seeing parallels or feeling parallels to my career. started at a big, huge, huge brokerage firm. One of the biggest in the world. Fidelity was there for five years. Learned a ton, literally made me who I am and gave me the skills that I have now to be where I am. But I became quite disenchanted with the corporate hamster wheel that was that place and those types of places. And it found my way here and it gave me a whole new perspective of how I approach work with the freedom and independence and like creativity that was, I was able to like cultivate and harness. Like it’s just completely different and it, yeah, a whole different experience. And it made me, I’ve now been here the better part of a decade and I can look back and say, it was a great path for me. So.

Christine : Experience.

Matt Mulcock : I can’t help but think there’s going to be tons more opportunities. Like we always look at DSOs as negative and what it’s doing to the space. I shouldn’t say we always do, but I think there’s a lot of thoughts around that. have opinions on that of like the negatives of, of P and corporate. But I also think if you have done right, an independent owner can look at this as a huge opportunity for them and advantage. So, ⁓ we digress. We hopefully that was a wordly,

Christine : And you bet, you bet. Yeah, shocker, we digress.

Matt Mulcock : Hopefully that was a worthy side quest for a moment. Let’s, okay, so let’s jump into this as far as should I bring on an associate? Basically, when do I know I’m ready? You already alluded to this, Chris, but let’s talk for a moment, kind of the foundational piece of this, of the motivation matters more than anything here. So the why, the classic Simon Sinek, why do I wanna do this? I think too many times in our lives, in business, in money, finance, We take this question as trite and cliche like, yeah, cool. Like, yeah, no, you’re right. This is the foundation of everything is knowing your motivation, knowing your why. Do you want to speak to this for a moment? Let’s let’s dive into this being the first thing you should figure out.

Christine : Well, this also plays into where are you at in your career, right? So I think I get a little nervous when I’ve got a doctor that’s been practicing for 11 months and is looking for the next associate. And I’m like, that’s where I question the why. But if you’re looking to do this because other people are, or if you’ve been told you need to do this, are you ready to be a mentor? That’s also something that’s really important. And again, Let’s go back to the scenario of the new associate coming in. What are they looking for? They are looking for mentorship. They are looking for guidance and especially if they haven’t gotten in at their previous experience. So if they’re not brand new right out of school, first of all, they’re gonna need a lot of hand holding. If they’ve had an experience somewhere else, they’re looking for a mentor. So do you have that passion? I think anybody that ever thought about being an instructor is a perfect person to come in and be a mentor to be that mentor for their new associate. So that’s important. Are they ready to not, how do tell a patient, I’m not gonna be seeing you today, you’re gonna be seeing somebody else and how do you practice that and how are you prepared for that? Is your team prepared for that? Are your patients ready to hear that? Are you ready to start sharing some of the profitability? So again, we’ll get into the details of is the business ready?

But the point is, are you financially ready to say, I’m ready to not take home as much as I am taking because I’m willing to share that with somebody else? Is that an inflection point for you that you’re ready to give up some of the time at the chair? Do you have a desire to be more of a business owner and have other people be providing the care at the chair? So again, that’s going to be bringing on one, if not more doctors. And again, are you… Is that your drive? Is that your why? That you’ve decided you’ve less inclined to be clinical and want to be more business oriented. Do you, know, so unfortunately sometimes this is a physical issue or a health issue that is driving this decision. Well, not a good one is a great reason to bring another doctor in because we can set a business up well to be owned by a doctor that physically can’t provide and is able to bring in another doctor. So all of those are things to think about outside of the business itself. Are you ready for this? And why are you doing this? Is there a demand from the patient base too? Is your community growing? You might be motivated by, want to take care of more people. Or you’re willing to stay within a network because there’s a new hospital in your community that takes XYZ insurance and no one’s taking that plan and you want to do that. So you’re motivated in that sense as a provider to be available for patients that need dental care.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah, I think those are great points, Chris. Yeah. Yeah. The, words I’m hearing the main word that came out of the Bob and Brighton interview with, the, hiring pros, the word of the kind of the word of that episode was intention. And what I’m hearing from you is the same thing, which is this hat. You don’t have to justify the reason to anybody. First of all, you don’t have to like sit here and say, ⁓ well, it has to make sense to know. doesn’t have to make sense to anyone, but you and your family and your business. But I do think you have to have a clear intentional proactive reason that fits within your overall vision as to why you’re doing this. think all too often, the reason we’re putting so much emphasis on this is because I think all too often what I hear from a lot of dentists is just like, it’s the next step. guess that’s what I have to do. Like, I guess I got to bring somebody on and say, I’m supposed to, or, well, I don’t know. Like, I don’t know what else to be doing. Like it’s the next step, I guess.

Christine : I’m supposed to.

Matt Mulcock : Or it’s, it’s, it’s very reactive. Like you’re, you’re burned out on a Tuesday after some crappy patients. And you’re like, you know what? I got to get away from the chair. I’m going to bring on an associate. Still, still might be the right answer possibly, but the, the reason is what you’re going to anger to when things get hard. And you have to be super thoughtful and clear and intentional about that, that reason, all the things that you mentioned. What is your overall vision for this business? think there’s a ton of great reasons to bring on an associate, but when you have something that has a 75 % to 80 % failure rate historically, you better be super thoughtful as to why you’re doing it and how you’re going to do it so you don’t end up being a statistic.

Christine : Well, and like we say all along in dentist advisors, get, be organized, right? So it is about being intentional, being strategic, being thoughtful about the why and then the how, both.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah. let’s actually just summarize really quick. The main wise that I think we see generally speaking, where it makes, it can make a lot of sense. And I want to get your thoughts on this, Chris, but the good reasons, the good reasons. I think, one of the, the go-to good reason is you have intentional growth plans. Like you’re like,

Christine : The good reasons to do it.

Matt Mulcock : I intentionally have a vision of what I want this to be. And I can’t do that by myself and I’m ready for this next phase of my career where I’m no longer going to be just a dentist. I’m going to be the CEO of a business and I have this vision for expansion and I need other docs to be able to do this. So basically simply put a growth strategy, bringing on associates is a great girl strategy. The other one that I’d say that I think.

Christine : 100%.

Matt Mulcock : If done correctly and intentionally. we’ll talk about these right, like readiness checklist things to be thinking about. But I think another one to be thinking about is, ⁓ not necessarily growth for the business, but maybe it’s a new phase of your life of stepping away. Of saying, now I’m focused, like I want to expand not my business, but my time capacity to focus on other things or maybe spend more time with my family. I want to mitigate risk in my business as being the only provider. I think those are reasons to do it too. Chris, what are your thoughts on that?

Christine : I love the idea about ⁓ the risk mitigation. There’s no more dangerous number than one. One of anything is very scary in a business, including dentistry, any small business. And the other side of that is time versus financial. There’s value in time versus money, if you will. And I want to add another one to that too of clinical expertise, of differentiating yourself. So perhaps you want to be able to still provide general dentistry.

Matt Mulcock : Yep. Yep.

Christine : For the sake of your patient base, but you yourself want to pursue a, I’m not going to call it a specialty, but an area within dentistry that you want to focus on, whether that be cosmetics, implant, ortho, sleep apnea, maybe you have identified a passion within yourself clinically. So it might not be reducing the clinical hours, which is one great reason to do it from the time perspective, but also you want to narrow your focus. You want to differentiate yourself in the marketplace for your own clinical satisfaction, a need in the patients, in the population, that kind of thing. So that differentiation piece is also valuable to take that as a really good reason to bring out another doctor to maintain the care of your patients for their general dentistry.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah, great. Yeah. Shout out James, Dr. James Heaton, Dr. Michael Allen, their co-founder is a smile trend. ⁓ just incredible dentists and incredible people, good friends. And, you’re going through that. And I’m like, that is them where they have their main practices, and associate driven because they can’t put in, like, because of they very intentionally want to go have a greater impact on the dental space.

Christine : My gosh.

Matt Mulcock : With smile trend and be able to train the next generation of dentists. So they’ve had, they’ve done that very intentionally. They’ve got their main practices. They’re, they’re associate driven. They’re not there very often anymore. They’re focusing on expansion of this, this movement of smile trend and no preveneers. So when you said that, was like, holy cow, that’s exactly what they’re doing. And what a great example of why you doing something like that bringing on associates and training and being a leader to those associates, perfect way to do it.

Christine : Well, I think there’s again, the life cycle of a practice, right? And it’s like, we’re all excited. We’re grow, grow, grow. And it’s this very exciting startup phase. And then I get into stability and I have a successful, viable, valuable business that’s creating a great lifestyle, great cashflow. And it’s like almost, and our friend, Perrin Desport says, it’s like Groundhog Day and I’m doing it again. And what is next? And that’s a very risky emotional state to be in of bored or distracted. And while things are going great, it’s like, ⁓ yeah. And then what is the next question, right? So then you have some choices, but again, being intentional, being organized and having a plan of what’s next is what really what we’re talking about here today.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah, definitely. So let’s talk about, say Dentist is out there saying, great, I’ve got a solid why I know I want to do this. It’s either for growth in my business and wealth, or it’s a growth in my time, whatever the reason they have a solid why they know why they’re doing it. They’re very intentional. Then the question becomes kind of the brass tacks, like the tactical, how do I know I’m actually ready to do this on the balance sheet, on the cashflow statement? What things should I be looking at in my business and in my personal financial life to prepare for this? I’ve got thoughts, but Chris, I want to go to you first. What are things Dentist should be thinking about to answer this question of like, how do I know I’m ready?

Christine : So I’m gonna stay on the practice side and the business side itself in terms of the business readiness. And at this point, again, let’s go under the assumption that we’re growing, not that I’m gonna differentiate and have somebody else maintain, but I’m thinking, I’m feeling I’m gonna bring on another doctor from a growth perspective. So we’ll stay with that. And so there’s a few things to think about. First of all, you have to look at your facility. Do I have operatories that I can either…

Matt Mulcock : Yes.

Christine : Operatories that currently aren’t being utilized. Do I have operatories that I could add to the facility that I have or am I looking at expanding my facility? The other expansion opportunity is vertically, meaning in time. Could I take my facility that’s currently Monday through Thursday, eight to four and open that up to seven to seven, Monday through Thursday and half day Friday? You’ll personally never hear me advocate for Saturdays unless there’s a whole video.

Matt Mulcock : I was gonna say, would you add a weekend? But yeah, maybe not.

Christine : Again, so here’s where the driving factor is your patient demand. Are they looking for that? Are they, there are certain areas in the country that they aren’t. They’re eight to five years, they take off from work and when they’re off of work, they’re doing their gym and family thing. Or there are younger families. If ⁓ I’m in a big growing neighborhood community, I’m definitely gonna wanna have some nights that I can see kids for hygiene and their parents who are gonna bring them and when are the kids gonna get their work done or though all of that. So lot of that’s patient demand and also the procedure mix that you do that will demand when your hours are available. So definitely I’m just, think the highest failure rate is on Saturdays for in general. That’s just historical perspective. But again, if the patient base is there

Matt Mulcock : Well

Christine : The demand.

Matt Mulcock : And probably be careful on that. Right. To Chris, just from a, just feels intuitive to me that like kind of the good luck putting that toothpaste back in the tube. Once you’ve opened up Saturdays and you’ve set expectations, like I think there’s a higher likelihood of a possible burnout B once you put that there, let’s say you’ve added your associate and you’re like, this is part of your role on Saturdays. And then your associate, maybe young hungry and willing. It was like, let’s do this. I want to just get them build my patient base and my skillset, but how, how, yeah, how long is that going to last? And now the patients have set, you’ve set an expectation again, coming back to this intentional thoughtfulness of just think about the long-term consequences of doing that. And it’s a lot harder to, to, pull that from someone rather than never to add it to the schedule in the first place.

Christine : Me six days, dumb. Yeah, keeping that one in your back pocket is always a better idea. again, just experience in my history. And honestly, if that’s the only day you can add, we might need to really think about, you really have the facility? If that’s the only day that you can add is a Saturday, and I have seen Sundays, is maybe we need to think about a second location, adding on something like that. So if that’s the only wiggle room you have, right from a facility standpoint.

Matt Mulcock : Efficiencies and yeah.

Christine : That capacity is an issue. looking at ⁓ making sure that there is room to grow, to add on. The other side of that, so we’re thinking about the five areas of growth. You need to have the facility to handle it, but then do you have the patient base to handle it? Do you currently have 1,800 to 2,000 patients of record? You as a solo practitioner are looking at you’re running two full hygiene schedules, right? Every day that you’re working, you’ve got two hygienists. That’s just about maintaining the patient base, the effectiveness of your re-care system. So you’ve got patients that are coming in regularly, you’ve got an established patient. Generally you wanna see 25 to 30 new patients per doctor day. Excuse me, month, per doctor. Yeah, per day. That’s a start. Wrong phase of development.

Matt Mulcock : Per month, right? Yeah, per month. I was like, whoa, that’s a lot of days. That’s a lot of patience.

Christine : Yeah, it is so monthly you’re looking at. So if you don’t have that now, are you ready to put some marketing strategy and investment into that? So and again, if you.

Matt Mulcock : So 25 to 30 new patients per month per doctor is the general baseline for HGP. Got it.

Christine : Correct. Correct. Right. And sometimes you’re not getting more than that because there’s nowhere to put them. Like if you’re new patients, you can’t see more than 30 a month because your schedule is full already. Then again, that’s an indication if you’re putting them out further, you probably have more new patients that are trying to get in, but probably not 50. So again, being ready to put some investment into marketing for the new doctor is important to remember that. And then your plan of how you’re going to onboard them.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah.

Christine : The clinical standard of care, so diagnostics get aligned. That’s important to your patient base, that it’s still your business. So your patients need to have the same experience with the other doctors. So that’s going to take time, but being very clear on a plan to onboard the new doctor clinically, that you guys are at least 80 % in alignment. Definitely looking at making sure that you have, like I said, the schedule, the opportunity to do that your operational systems need to be at their pretty 80 % effective. You’re not worried about patients falling through the crack. You’re not worried about accounts receivable that aren’t getting paid because if the systems aren’t solid and you just add more providers, it’s going to be very obvious that the systems aren’t effective and you’re going to get more headaches than you had before as a solo practitioner. But ⁓ they’re harder to ignore with more than one provider. So looking operationally.

Matt Mulcock: That’s a really good point, Chris, where what might work for you as a solo doc doesn’t mean it’s a scalable system that’s repeatable as you add other providers. And being honest with how you’re approaching that and making that transition system wise and saying, again, I know all the nuances and I can get away with just knowing how this works with this hygienist and this assistant and I can kind of, I do a lot of things out of my, just out of memory, just, or I just had just, cause I just know how this works. That’s a, there’s a huge difference between that and saying setting up the system. So almost like fail proof. It’s like, well, I can just plug somebody into this totally different things.

Christine : Right, so that’s operational manual, if you will, standard operating procedures that it’s not dependent on one person because the other thing you need to do is plan for bringing on more team members. So if you’re expanding hours, if you’re adding a provider, you’re definitely going to need, you know, possibly an admin, definitely, you know, a chair side. As you get bigger, you’ll be needing to bring in another hygienist as the new patients grow. So we need to have the processes in place before you add more people to those processes. Yeah. And then that brings in the whole fact that the profitability, if you will, of the business is the business itself being run well, are my overheads in line? are we able currently are my overheads at less than 30 % 28 % or less than with team? Are we definitely looking at, let’s just say the total overheads are running between 50 and 60 % because that’s where now the profit that there’s a profit center that has to be maintained.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah, really.

Christine : Or at least understood that some of that profit, which is no law, right now goes all to the owner, right? That’s all to the owner. Everything left over, bottom of the bucket all goes to the owner. Well, at some point, if we grow the top line of productivity, that new provider is going to be compensated. Let’s just say 30 % of that net. So do we have enough profit now that if some of it goes to the associate and the rest of my overheads are managed, do I still make 10, 15, 20 % as of every dollar that that associate is adding in. That’s also the kind of reverse engineering that math. Is there enough profit that I can understand some of that compensation is gonna go to another provider? And that comes back to, you know, as a independent provider, what do I need to take home, right? As an individual entrepreneur, as a solopreneur, from the personal expenditure side, am I saving enough? Am I investing appropriately? Am I currently working toward my own long-term wealth strategy with the model that I have now? And is there any wiggle room in that? That’s, you know, we’re the

Matt Mulcock : Yeah, that’s a really good point. Yeah.

Christine :
the business side and growing the business only makes sense if it’s going to help on the personal side too.

Matt Mulcock : This requires as a better baseline, maybe obvious, I think it might be obvious, ⁓ like just to say, but it’s like, are you actually doing this? Which is, you even know what your overhead is? Are you actually tracking your numbers in the business? Do you know what your profitability is? Because you have to know these things. You have to have a very clear intuitive, easy to track progress type P and L to imbalance sheet to know what, where am I set up? Within my business to be able to do this. Otherwise you’re shooting in the dark and that’s not going to, it’s going to not set you up for success. And Chris, when you say, I think this is so good to say like, I wouldn’t even be thinking about this if your overheads are higher than 60%. If you’re like 70 % plus that’s a problem and you need to fix that problem before you would probably consider adding another provider. Is that fair to say?

Christine : Again, that goes back to that operational side, right? Again, from the, I’m either not efficient enough in my, maybe I don’t have enough new patients, maybe they’re not, my recall structure isn’t strong enough, my system that’s bringing the patients back in, I need to look at gross production versus net production, am I collecting everything that I should? 80 % of profit really is based on your system, right? You need to make sure that I’m efficiently, again, I don’t like to say that I’m, efficiently using the team, but are they effective in the position that they’re providing? Do I need to train them differently? Do I need to look at technology that’s going to make this more efficient? So profitability of the solo practice before we add in more providers is critical.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah, that brings up a thought when you were going through that too, Chris, ⁓ is we’re talking about like, how do I know I’m ready? Another thing that comes to mind for me is how do I know the answer is actually an associate? So when you’re talking about like having the capacity physically and, you could expand vertically. And I hear a lot of times from dentists where it’s like, man, I’m like six months booked out on hygiene or I’m six months booked out for a new appointment for me. That must mean that I need to bring on an associate. I think. It’s a really easy go-to for dentists. And I’m not saying it’s not the right answer, but I’m curious from your perspective, maybe thinking of this other angle of like, what else could it be? Just so dentists are thinking about all the alternatives here.

Christine : Wow, what else could it be? It would be again, the efficiency of the systems. Number one is going to be something that I’m going to look at. I would definitely look at service mix. In terms of you know, am I doing a lot of single tooth dentistry? Am I doing a lot of smaller restorative work versus looking at am I looking at my patient comprehensively and even diagnosing enough? that I’m getting the case acceptance that I need to in order to grow. I think that’s a big piece of it too. I’m not a dentist, I’m not here to say you’re not diagnosing correctly, but it is important to look at, and again, at the end of the year, you wanna look at how many of every service did I do. You wanna look at fees. I mean, this is something from ⁓ my heartbreaks when I hear doctors that say I don’t wanna raise my fees because I don’t know if my patient base can handle that if I raise the fees and yet nothing goes down in cost. So your margins are shrinking in profitability if you’re not looking at increasing the cost because your costs are going up, right? Milk doesn’t come down in cost just because we don’t to pay as much. but then I need to look at the system of am I making it, do I have enough financial options that my patients can pay for it? Right, can I help them find a way to afford the work?

Matt Mulcock : Yeah. Yeah.

Christine : So again, it goes back to those other things of am I scheduling efficiently? Am I helping patients find the financial options they need? Am I scheduling efficiently? Am I looking at the efficiency of my speed and is there services that I should be doing in a different way that would make me more efficient clinically? Doing one tooth at a time is not efficient. Doing a quadrant at a time is more efficient. So more dentistry, fewer patients in a day is a way to look at that. Again, if you’re booked out six months, what’s the failure rate? I want to make sure that we’re not having openings the same day because if you’re that busy, you should be that productive. Are there operatories that aren’t making the $35,000 month? Is every chair producing $35,000 per month? That’s kind of a base facility schedule. So if that’s not happening, then I probably have chairs that I’m not using efficiently enough. And then there’s also the productivity versus collections and looking at number one fees and number two. What is really affecting the difference between net and gross production? Are my in-network fees just really eating away at every profit margin that I have? And then there are some negotiations that maybe could be done. Is it worth hiring a third party to help me negotiate my fees? Do I look at if I’m losing money on certain procedures do I need to think about getting within a plan? Do I need to modify my relationship with that plan? So a whole other nut we can dive into on another call, but that’s definitely a huge impact on the ability to be a successful business might be the involvement that you have with your PPOs.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah. Yeah, no, I’m so glad that we went through that. I’m glad, I’m glad we through that because I think it’s a useful exercise, a thought exercise, and probably the work that needs to go into, uh, even if you are dead set on bringing on an associate, I think by going through what you just went through, um, and I know there’s, it’s a difference between like hearing it and thinking about it actually doing it. But I think going through the exercise of saying, what are my alternatives? I think would almost be a forcing mechanism for you to prepare for that associate. It’s going to be like you’re talking about systems and profitability and knowing my profit per patient and my PPOs and do I have the right setup to bring on or change my service mix? Like I think all of these things, if you go through thinking, okay, I want to do this, but what are the alternatives? I truly do think it would force you to build out those systems and better prepare you for bringing on an associate.

Christine : Well, I think the point of getting again, sometimes it’s scary to look at the data, right? To realize that maybe I’ve made a clinical decision that I want to do more. We’ll just say crown a bridge that I want to do more. I want to do more crowns. And so actually looking historically back at how many crowns you did versus four surface fillings, those sorts of things where I said I wanted to do that. I do believe it’s a better service yet. Why am I not doing more of that? So looking at you know, where I’ve been is important in terms of setting a plan for growth, moving forward yourself, much less adding somebody else to that conversation. And the profit per procedure is, I’m going to give a little plug here. This is a really good exercise to really start thinking about. Because again, if we’re talking, if we’re thinking about, want to go into Invisalign and I want you to really stop and do the math on the cost of the education, the technology, the lab fees, and your time. That’s the other thing. The bigger, again, we can make that very profitable. It’s number one, a great service. Huge shout out to that, the clear aligners as a patient myself. But the idea of thinking, I need to be intentional, we’ll go back to that word, and I need to be organized and plan the growth strategy if I’m looking to differentiate into a different area of dentistry, ortho, surgery implants, reconstructive, the aesthetic veneer cases, all of those need to get thought through and have a business plan for it. And the same thing with an associate. I need to know my business. I need to have a plan for this. can do pro forma projections of when is the associate profitable? At what production per day is the associate profitable? That depends on the cost of keeping your doors open every day. And that’s in the P &L.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah, you have to know those numbers. Yeah. Yeah. Love it. I’ll jump in.

Christine : That’s in the P &L. We can figure that out. So again, I think moving forward, getting the confidence to know, right? I think this goes back to the original question of why were there failures historically of associateships that don’t work out? This kind of work wasn’t done enough for those. We can reduce those failure rates just with some planning.

Matt Mulcock : Yep. Yep. Yeah. Preparation planning, knowing your numbers, I think could be, would be huge. ⁓ I’ll jump in here really quick as we move on to the next section. But if we talk about how do I know when I’m ready? ⁓ you did a fantastic job talking about all the business side, which is super critical. All reference really briefly also on the personal side and the, ⁓ just the financial side on a personal finance side. You want to make sure knowing that chances are you bring on an associate. Your cashflow will most likely go down initially, but you should just mentally prepare for that. You’re going to, it’s going to go down your, what procedures you were doing in production you were doing, and you’re going to be taking home that money is now going to another provider. You’re not splitting the workload. So initially before you’re able to grow that pie, you should just mentally prepare that your cashflow is going down. So what does that mean on the personal side to prepare for this? You better have a sizable or ⁓ a nice solid.

Christine : Initial.

Matt Mulcock : Base of liquidity, both in the business and at home. So a solid emergency fund in these scenarios, I would actually encourage a dentist to turn the dial up on cash holdings with, look at an associate as no nothing or nothing. It’s no different than making any investment in your business. And if you’re going to make an investment in your business, you probably want a little bit more cash on the sideline to prepare for that investment. And so I would have more cash on the home front and in the business the other thing is I would be, you better be tracking and knowing what your cashflow is and what your margin of safety is when it comes to cashflow. If you’re living paycheck to paycheck now at home and you bring on an associate, that’s going to be tricky. That’s going to be really, really scary. And that’s where, you know, mistakes are made. Credit card debt goes up. You get really stressed that those things can be a problem. So you got to have liquidity. You got to know your cashflow and you should have a margin of safety in both before you make this choice or before you bring on an associate.

Christine : I’m 100 % in terms of, you I would seriously question why we’re bringing in an associate if I’m not financially stable yourself, business and professional for sure. Three to six months cash on hand for the business. Absolutely. Of operating expenses.

Matt Mulcock : Yep. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And it actually, it actually brings up an interesting point too, to really quick as we talked about like kind of the two, the two broad main reasons to bring on an associate number one growth. I think that’s obvious. And we’ve been kind of using that as a reference point. I think the other one we talk about is again, lifestyle, maybe lifestyle investment, like the dentist wants to step away and they’re okay giving up the production and they know their income’s coming down, which I’ve seen, by the way, I’ve seen this happen. It’s not a growth play. It’s a I want to get away from share side play. I actually think that can work, but again, knowing the life stage you’re in, career stage you’re in and knowing your finances really well is so critical because it might be a scenario Chris, where depending on the stage of life you’re in and financially where you, where you are. That you, and you have a margin of safety and like, let’s say savings rate that you can actually turn down that savings rate. Cause you’ve built up enough assets that are going to grow. You might say, okay, well, I just need enough income to cover my lifestyle for the next whatever timeframe. I’m going to probably stop saving as much as I used to, because I don’t need to anymore. And I can still get to my work optional goal, but Hey, I just cut two days off a week chair side. And now I can travel more with my family. I can spend more time at home. I can reduce my stress and yeah, I’m not saving a, you know, the 25 % I was before. Maybe now it’s only 10 or seven or five.

Christine : Currently.

Matt Mulcock : But I’ve done the proper planning to know I’m still on pace for my work optional goals. That could be a play that that it doesn’t have to just be growth, but you got to know the numbers either way.

Christine : Well, and how often have we said that your biggest investment model, right? Your biggest investment strategy is your business. So if you can create this business that is continuing to put off revenue and to have, again, reducing the risk, somebody else is there, the value of that business, systems, team, culture, ⁓ reputation, all of that is in place. When you’re not there full-time, now you’ve created, now we’re getting into the whole idea of the exit strategy. Right now you’ve created this model that at some point will be liquidated for value over time. So this is incredibly well thought out. If it is a lifestyle business now and funds your lifestyle that can then, you know, at liquidation be your investment strategy for your wealth, long-term personal wealth. Fantastic.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah, totally. Yeah. That’s another good thing to emphasize as we jump into this next piece, which is talking about kind of how to set it up for success is another reason, maybe underlying reason we didn’t mention, but you just said it is succession planning. You know, that’s a, it’s a alluded to, but I think that’s a huge one. ⁓ yeah, I think growth, I think lifestyle is take, you know, getting more time back and then succession planning or kind of the three main kind of big reasons to do this.

Christine : Alluded to. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock : Let’s jump into, ⁓ how to set this up for success. And I want to kind of mold this with our kind of the last section here as well. ⁓ just for efficiency of time. And I think kind of wrapping this up, let’s talk about how to set this up for success and in conjunction, like when does it go wrong? So kind of those two things together, like how do we set this up for success? then mistakes to avoid, you know, once we’ve decided that we’d have the Y prepared financially, know that we know how to do this. We know we’re ready for this. What then Chris, how do we set this up to make sure we’re not a dentist is not going to be part of that 75 to 80 % failure failure rate.

Christine : Well, I think again, we’ve talked about being organized and being structured. And so now we’ve got all the information we need, but who is your ideal candidate? Who are you looking for to be a part of your work family? be, it’s a significant relationship. And I often call it, know, the dating and then the marriage as partnership. But it is that serious that you need to think about. You’re working with somebody that you

Matt Mulcock : Yeah.

Christine : Is a peer that is possibly going to be mentor, mentee, but this is another doctor, another professional, another coworker on your level that this could be super cool to have another doctor on staff, but you got to like them, right? They need to be, it’s again, it’s this, and I’ll go back to Brighton and Bob, there’s a match here. What am I looking for? So I have to be very clear on my offer. So I would first do some homework yourself. What is great about my community? What am I willing to offer the doctor? Am I looking at giving them unlimited access to my entire patient base? I’m not gonna limit them. I’m not gonna tell them they can’t do certain procedures or they can’t see certain patients, right? They’re gonna be able to do, I affectionately call it, eat what they kill. That what you diagnose, you get to do, right? I’m not gonna stop you. If that’s the offer that you’re making, you need to get you know, clear on continuing education, hours, time, all of that. So you’re creating and crafting a story. Are you in the mountains of Montana and it’s absolutely gorgeous here? And if you’re the outdoor, we live two miles from a ski hill and join my family and I as we go camping three times a year. I mean, the story of what makes your practice attractive to somebody else. So you’re looking to make this this great story, I’d encourage you to hire someone for support in terms of finding that associate. I don’t think, again, I would also hire a lawyer to write a contract. get a little, I don’t even get a little, get very nervous. Well, we just said, and I’m like, that you said over a beer, right? And it’s like, that is not the way to grow a business, unfortunately. Right or wrong, get professional support from the search.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah.

Christine : The legal side of this and then really put some time into this. Don’t think this is going to happen overnight. I think there’s also the understanding number one of the search is going to take a while and especially the more specific you are on what you’re looking for. So be realistic on that. I’d also be really realistic about the fact that you will need to make time for this associate. The fly-by meetings don’t count.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah.

Christine : In the hallway, we look at charts together, commit time to this new associate, commit time in formal and informal meetings. The managing expectations are what’s most important. So misunderstood, unmet expectations, just think about any relationship. If I thought it was going to be this way and you said it was going to be this way and they’re not the same, one or the other of you is going to be unhappy. And let’s be honest, those associate quote unquote failures happened on both sides. It wasn’t just that the associate didn’t work. It’s that sometimes it’s the owner that didn’t have the fair expectations. So that’s the biggest risk of being unclear, being vague, ⁓ not living up to what you said you would do, right? Both financially as well as time and commitment from that mentorship side. So that’s really where I’ve seen the biggest, I would say, mistake is not being formal.

Matt Mulcock : The doctor set him up to fail or the owner. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Christine : Not being complete, not being honest. know, don’t, don’t hook them and then not live. mean having them in the door is the first part. Keeping them is the other. There’s attraction and then there’s retention. Attracting an associate is probably easier than keeping one to be honest. Right? I mean, getting them in the door is one thing, but keeping them and the value of retaining team, including associates is incredibly four times more valuable than trying to find a new one.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah, huge. can be so costly. That’s why this, this, this 75 to 80 % failure rate is such a costly, ⁓ statistic for, for owners out there, ⁓ in a world of, of competition that’s never been, you know, that’s never been harder to compete. I think in dentistry, it’s really, really critical to get this right. And you mentioned it. We’ve, we’ve given them several shout outs just because they deserve it. And I think they’re. Such a good resource, but the thing I would take from what you just said is, ⁓ proper communication expectations are huge being, being honest and upfront to the folk, know, being kind, not nice, being kind is sometimes telling the hard truth and having uncomfortable conversations. Being nice is telling people what they want to hear. That’s, that’s always going to set you up for failure in the long run. ⁓ but the other one being the getting help, it’s too critical to get this.

It’s too critical and too expensive to get this wrong. So truly somebody like the hiring pros, ⁓ to be able to help you get this right and minimize the chances of you being that statistic. I think is huge. and the training afterwards, like you said, of being able to keep them retained. I don’t know if it’ll ever get to a place where it’s a hundred percent chance that you’re going to guaranteed, but if you can. Increase your chances of, having an, ⁓ an incredible partnership. way Brighton put it was it can be magic if done correctly, but that takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of work.

Christine : Yeah. Well, and again, I think that constant communication is also the retention side of this again is more about number one, the honesty upfront. If you’re looking for along, if you’re actually open to being partnership, you can talk about that, but put it on a timeline, put it on an agree to meet. And it’s that continued communication again, that you’re not just training them, but how’s it going? What are you looking? Tell me what you’ve read about lately. What are you interested in keeping when you’re their resource? for their own success, right? You want them to be successful. For your business, when the associate is successful, so too is your business. And if you’ve played a role in their mentorship, then you get joy out of that when you can see them growing, if that’s important to you. But being there for them is critical too, when you’re encouraging them, asking them to do more. Is there something you’re interested in? Let’s do this together, taking them with you on continuing education seminars, that time outside of the office is also very important, right? Supporting them in their lifestyle, in encouraging them with, you know, with the challenges they have in their own career growth and helping them share your experience to help them learn from the mistakes you’ve made in the past or the struggles you’ve had. Let me teach you this so you don’t go through it too. That’s incredibly valuable and that’s what’s different in a private practice, that one-on-one coaching and mentorship.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah, it is. It’s so true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got to fall through. ⁓ yeah, I love this theme that you’re hitting on Chris of this leadership mindset and approach and it shifts. changes when you bring on another producer and something you’ve really got to lean into and be okay with and probably get some coaching and mentorship around is your, leadership. The other thing I was thinking about is how critical for any small business. just happen to work with dentists that are small business owners.

Christine : But if you say you’re gonna do it, you gotta do it.

Matt Mulcock : But how important it is as you talk about, you know, an expectation framework and proper communication and systems and all this thing, all these things, those things, I want to throw this out and get your thoughts. don’t think that those things can be put in place. after you hire the associate or have the associate be the catalyst for like, okay, now all of a sudden we’re going to start holding people accountable and have a communication and feedback system and build these. Like I think bringing on an associate is probably a huge, it changes the culture possibly, or can rattle the cages a bit for the team. And so if you do that and then all of a sudden start shifting and being like, also we’re going to overhaul everything. I just think that’s a lot. So I think sequencing this properly and setting up a good foundation and baseline for your business months, maybe even like a year or two years before. You’re bringing on an associate, I think would be really, really important. So the team’s not like, wait, this new person’s here. And all of a sudden now we’re having like feedback sessions. We’ve never done this before. Like then resentment gets built or it just like, it’s too much change. Is that a fair instinct to have Chris and thinking about this and sequencing it the right way?

Christine : Again, yes and yes and yes to all of this. I couldn’t have said it any better, but the idea of, know, first you’re growing, right? It’s just patience in the board. Go, go, go, go, go. Then I’m getting established. Well, established doesn’t mean that we’re lackadaisical. Established means I’m creating foundations. I do have systems. I have team structure. I have team meetings. I have communication. I have an organized plan for running the day. I know my business numbers. I know my overhead. That’s an established, viable business. Now, sustainable growth doesn’t, if you build on weak foundation, I call it like an engine that needs a tune up and all I’m doing is putting in high octane fuel to it. That’s all gonna leak out, right? On the little, I’m no engine girl, but all the little loose screws. It’s gonna be leakage.

Matt Mulcock : You’re like, I shouldn’t have used this as an analogy.

Christine : However, I know when I put more fuel in or better fuel, it’s going to leak more, right? So that’s the whole idea of don’t add productivity. Don’t add new things until the engine itself is running without leaking, right? So that’s all foundational. Now, the second piece you talked about of change, we haven’t even talked about now that I’ve made the decision, I need to communicate this with my team and I need to communicate this with my patients. So it’s a whole other avenue to go of once I’ve made the decision we’re going to bring somebody on that has to get shared with the team because their life will change. There will be different hours you’re going to have to train. They’re going to have to help them understand. We’re going to have to do all sorts of things administratively with getting them set up into the computer and the billing cycle and all of these different things that will affect the team significantly. And you want to talk about checklists. I probably have 36 different things that have to be done administratively when you bring out an associate. So keeping this as a surprise, know, happy Tuesday, we’ve brought on another doctor is the wrong way to announce that to the team. And honestly, again, if you’re having meetings with your team as you go, they’re gonna know we’ve got patients booked out so far, or we’ve got, you you’re exhausted doc, and when you’re not here, we don’t make.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah. Don’t do it. Yep. Yep.

Christine : Our monthly revenue that we need to because you take a week off. Well, you should and yet we’re not paying our bills. So all of those things the team is probably already aware of. telling them that you’re thinking about these options and what this might be and who this is going to be and what this looks like is important to do earlier than later.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah, that’s such a good point, Chris. And don’t underestimate the power of collaboration with your team and bringing them into the decision. And, ⁓ there’s, it’s a balance, right? Like you’ve got it. You are the, you are the CEO of that business. You are the one that makes the final choice, but don’t underestimate the power of the positive impact on culture that it can have with your team and the level of loyalty they’ll feel to you. If you bring them into that decision early and often. And you make it clear, they’re not the ones deciding. You are the one deciding, take that pressure from them. But if you go to your team and say, I need your advice. Here’s what we’re dealing with. I want your input. Here’s what I’m dealing with. And here’s what I’m thinking. I’m thinking we’re ready to bring on another doctor and here’s, here’s why. And here’s how it’s going to, here’s how I think. Here’s my vision of what this could look like and how it’s going to impact everyone. But I need your advice. I need your input.

Christine : Want your input. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock : And bring them into that decision, help that obviously you’re going to be hiring someone. Like you said, you can’t show up on a Monday and be like, guys, here’s the new, here’s the new doc. They should be a part of that process along the way. And I think the, the second order ripple effects of that, if you do it right, it’s going to be incredible loyalty, motivation, a greater sense of culture and connection with your team of being like, my gosh. The, the doc like brought me like he. He or she thought of me as a, as a partner in this. think there’s things like that, that go well beyond paychecks that people start to feel that connection to the, to the team and to you as the leader that go a long way. So you just as an opportunity to, bring your team together.

Christine : Well, and it goes back to, let’s circle all the way back to the why, right? And if your why of bringing on an associate is in support of why you have a business that happens to be dentistry in the first place. So the mission statement, the values, all of that, if your growth strategy supports your mission statement and your values and your team has bought into that, if your team believes in your mission and your why, and you can say this person that we’re bringing in is going to enhance that. How do you guys feel about that? Am I missing anything? Absolutely. That alignment of your team growth does not happen in a vacuum. It does not work that way. So you’re better off with them than having them against you. So the earlier and more often you get their input, not necessarily their decision. Exactly. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock : Yes. Yeah. I’m glad you brought that back full circle, Chris. ⁓ I think that’s a great way to kind of wrap this up. ⁓ any final words of wisdom you’d add to this process of anything of, of, around bringing on an associate, the, the how to know you’re ready or the what goes wrong or the keys to success. Any other final words that you’d add to this?

Christine : Again, the sooner you think about it and start doing the data research and data gathering and analysis, the better, but don’t wait for the 100 % right either because the only thing we can count on is death and taxes or however that saying goes, but waiting for it to be 100 % right, you’ll never do it. So when it’s 80 % right in your head, in your heart, in your gut, I think it was Mrs. Roosevelt that said that, that’s when you move, right? So get input from your team, get input from your advisors. We’re here to help and do some of that analysis with you. yeah, here we grow.

Matt Mulcock : Yeah. I love that. It reminds me of the, the quote that has resonated a lot with me over the last few years of my life with things that I’ve been dealing with, but from Cicero, it’s more as lost and indecision than in wrong decision. And I think, ⁓ it summarizes what you just said, which is it’s never going to be right or wrong, but you need to set yourself up for success. The best possible way you can, and hopefully everything we just reviewed. It’s kind of pointing you in that direction. So, ⁓ if, if you’re still here, you’re one of the cool ones. If you’re still listening, we really appreciate it. if this is helpful, if this is helpful and you, and you think there’s a dentist out there that needs to hear this, we’d love for you to share the episode, education’s the basis of everything we do, the foundation of everything we do. And we’re trying to make a positive impact in the dental community. So this is helpful. We’d love for you to share the episode, spread the good word and, and help a dentist out. So if you want to talk to us, ⁓ we now have, as we’ve highlighted, and you’ve heard her throughout the show, the incredible Christine Uhen on our team. It’s a resource for all of our practice owning clients as a practice strategist. we have incredible advisors here. we want to help. And so if you want to talk to us and share your story with us, we would love to hear your story, see how we can help you. You can go to denisadvisors.com click on the yellow book free consultation button. But for now. Chris, thanks so much for being here. Everyone. Thanks for listening. Have a good day till next time. Bye bye.

Christine : Thanks, Matt.

Keywords: dentistry, career paths, associateships, partnerships, private practice

Practice Management