What Happened? Behind 2023’s Failed Market Forecasts – Episode #474

Knowledgeable stock market analysts had a lot to say about 2023 a year ago, but now that it has come and gone, how accurate were those forecasts? On this Dentist Money Show, Ryan, Matt, and Rabih take advantage of hindsight to look at why market predictions usually miss their mark and how keeping a focus on managing risk is most crucial when navigating the market. 

 

 

 

 

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Podcast Transcript

Ryan Isaac
Okay, I’m excited. I’m excited for this one, Matt and Rabih.

Matt Mulcock
Yo, Ryan and Rabih.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah. Thanks for being here everybody. So, recording this. I’m actually excited. Like the vibes today, it’s a late Friday afternoon. Is it sunny where you’re at? It’s very sunny where I’m at. Okay. I’m sorry.

Rabih Dimachki
What’s up?

Matt Mulcock
This is fun. No, no, it is a, it’s decently warm today. It’s 36 degrees, but it’s a balmy 36 and there’s no sun to be seen.

Rabih Dimachki
Nope.

Ryan Isaac
Okay, no sun.

Okay, well, that is mean of me, but it just feels like a good Friday, you know, like caffeinated work, productive day, got my friends here, and we’re gonna talk about something very cool. Talking about the markets in 2023. What’s more exciting than that? I think that’s amazing. There’s probably a few things more exciting than that. Okay, so here was the question to start off with. We did something similar.

Matt Mulcock
There’s literally nothing more exciting on a Friday afternoon.

Ryan Isaac
to this last year, you can find it on episode 373. I don’t know what that was titled, unless one of you guys knows off the top of your head or can find that really fast. We do have a timestamp where these begin. A stampage. Yeah, for all those, Rabih is, as everyone knows, is just always incredibly prepared with levels and levels and levels of research and things to talk about. So last year we did,

Matt Mulcock
No, but we have a timestamp.

Rabih Dimachki
Thanks for watching!

Matt Mulcock
Freakin’ Rabih just being the man.

Rabih Dimachki
I got the title, sorry to interrupt you. How much stock should you put in market predictions?

Ryan Isaac
We did a, you know, what’s the title? Oh, okay. And what date was that last year? Do you know? Sometimes hard to see what depending on the podcast app you’re in.

Rabih Dimachki
Uhhhhhh… It was like February 5th around that time, but I don’t have the exact date. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac
Okay, a sneaky year ago. Okay. And so in that podcast, we went through a series of predictions that people had for the markets in 2023 that came from some pretty usually credible sources. I’m just curious, either one of you guys, take us back a year ago though, we were just coming off of 2022. What were we coming out of in 2022 from the markets? What was that like?

Matt Mulcock
As for, hang on real quick. I actually, Rabih just said that I’m like, we need to give our title guy, whoever our title person is a raise. Listen to that title. How much stock should you put into market predictions? That had to be Justin or Tad.

Ryan Isaac
Oh, yeah. Say it again. Yeah, yep. Uh huh. I think Justin, Justin or Ted, I think we hired them from BuzzFeed. That’s where we got them. Yeah, it would have been like, how much stock should you put in market predictions? You won’t believe number six. That’s what it would have been. But what? Okay, so we were coming fresh out of 2022. Maybe Rabih, Mark, yeah.

Matt Mulcock
Yeah, that’s amazing.

Rabih Dimachki
Hahaha

Matt Mulcock
You won’t believe numbers, yeah. S&P down 19%.

Ryan Isaac
Matt, what was your perception from how people were reacting to 2022? Rabih, what actually happened in 2022? Just a quick, what was the context when we did this first show?

Matt Mulcock
I mean, people were freaking out about the market. And I think sentiment going into 2023 was pretty low. It was from what I remember, Rob, you tell me, but I mean, in conversations and in all the questions we were getting, the fact that we were coming off a double digit negative market in 2022, we’re still feeling kind of like, COVID was still not fully like gone. And again,  everybody calling for a recession and all the inflation issues. I think end of 2022, going to 2023, the sentiment was all time low, I think. Not all time low, but very low.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah, rates were coming up. Real estate was just like screeching to a halt. Everything was getting super expensive. Yeah, what would you add to that, Rabih?

Rabih Dimachki
It was a scary year because it kind of broke records. Like yes, the S&P 500 dropped 19.5%, but it was the worst year ever recorded for bonds due they dropped like 16%, right? And it was the highest ever recorded interest rate volatility, which when you are ending a year with a new printed extreme in your data set, that’s kind of worrisome.

Ryan Isaac
Mmm.

Matt Mulcock
Yeah.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah.

Matt Mulcock
Rabih, was not only the second time ever since I think 1994 and then 2022 were the only two years that we saw double digit negative returns and bonds? Am I remembering that correctly?

Rabih Dimachki
It is, and usually they’ve been associated with a very aggressive interest rate hiking regime. And this last one in 2022 was the fastest ever on record, where the Fed usually waits a couple of months before they raise interest rates, but every single month you were having at least 0.5% increase, which was the fastest.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah.

Matt Mulcock
All the talk on social media was about eggs and how expensive eggs were. I remember this. That was, yeah.

Ryan Isaac
That was killing me. I ate so many eggs. That was destroying my budget. And Matt, I was just going to say too, client experience and perception. Many clients hold bonds, even people who aren’t in retirement for various reasons, you know, to dampen volatility in portfolios or hold like short-term money or emergency funds. So it was one of those years where we’re getting hit in stocks and their bonds are getting crushed too in the same year, which is a rare experience. They don’t always align like that. They’re supposed to be kind of moving opposite and they usually do. So that was a hard, I think just from a client experience, portfolio experience here, I think that was just a tough year for people to sit through and not know.

Matt Mulcock
Well, and I think to that point, Ryan and what Rabih just said, I think the scariest thing with bonds, not even if they’re directly moving in opposite directions, right? That isn’t always the case. I think the degree in which bonds dropped with stocks, the fact that the S&P, as Rabih said was down 19.5% and bonds were down 16.

That is unheard of. You don’t ever see that. Like even in years where like they both drop, which has happened in history, Rabih can correct me if I’m wrong, but that has happened, but it would be normal to see a 20% drop in the S and P and then like 4%, 3% on bonds. Like that’s the whole point of bonds is to dampen that drop. That’s why 2022 to Rabih’s point was kind of like terrifying for a lot of investors. We just never seen that. There was nowhere to hide.

Ryan Isaac
Huge. Yeah, that was huge. Single digit. Yeah, uh-huh, yeah. Yes, no where to hide except for cash and high yield savings. And then that just went off the charts. So Rabih, we did that episode a year ago. What were the predictions that we were reading? Yeah, what were the predictions? Timestamp, if you wanna go back to episode 373, it starts at about 32 minutes. What were the predictions that we were gonna see? And these were not like from Reddit, right? These were credible sources. These were banks and…

Matt Mulcock
I’m excited for this. I wanna, I wanna.  Where did we get these by the way?

Rabih Dimachki
No, I followed the whole scope. I went all the way to like Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, down to like monthly full redditors. We took the whole spectrum. Okay.

Matt Mulcock
Got it, got it, got it.

Ryan Isaac
Okay.  Wait, I like how down two and then Motley Fool and Reddit was on the same level in Twitter. Okay. Yeah. So what were the predictions then for 2023 coming out of that crazy 2022?

Rabih Dimachki
Yeah, and Twitter, right?

Matt Mulcock
I mean, yeah, that’s accurate. Yeah.

Rabih Dimachki
Alright, the first one said, we’ll be in a recession by the end of 2023.

Matt Mulcock
Wah wah.

Ryan Isaac
Okay, okay. Um, real fast. Do you, do you, how do you guys want to do this? Do you want to say what actually happened as we do each one or do we want to go through the list first and then say what actually happened?

Matt Mulcock
I think my vote, this just, I would say we do it one by one. So like say what the prediction was. Cause I think people will get lost if you do the whole list. Cause we have a pretty decent list.

Ryan Isaac
Okay. Yeah, let’s do that. Okay. So prediction was recession by the end of 2023. What actually happened?

Rabih Dimachki
According to the latest estimates by the Fed, we posted a 2.6% real growth in GDP in 2023. Putting inflation aside, after inflation. After inflation.

Ryan Isaac
To find real growth. Yeah, after inflation, after the crazy inflation, the GDP grew 2.6% when, okay, the call was for recession. So.

Matt Mulcock
Net of inflation. So that’s not a recession, Rabih. No, I was just making sure I had my definition right. Like positive growth in a year is not a recession. Got it, got it.

Rabih Dimachki
No, recession is negative growth.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah. That’s not a recession. Yeah, okay, number two, I wanna read this one. I just wanna read some of these predictions. Number two was that the S&P 500 will retest its lows by the first half of the year and end at 4,200, implying a 5% return for the year. What actually happened?

Matt Mulcock
Can I just say something really quick?

Ryan Isaac
Yeah. I think I know where you’re going with this actually. I might be thinking the exact same thing.

Rabih Dimachki
Hehe

Matt Mulcock
Just like, how stupid is that statement? I’m sorry, but like why I’m sorry. Okay. I just said like, why I’m just feeling like, it’s just, it’s so frustrating to me that, that we do this with these, like you’re saying you got these from like JP Morgan and like Morgan Stanley and it’s like they

Ryan Isaac
No, what? Finish your thought. Like when you’re feeling something, what are you feeling?

Rabih Dimachki
Yeah, this was not one of the cheap sites. It was one of the prominent credible investment banks in the company, in the country.

Matt Mulcock
It just feels like such a waste of resources and time and energy that any of these groups put merit into any of this stuff. Sorry, I’m going to be done. I’m getting…

Ryan Isaac
Yeah, well you’re talking, no these things are coming from some of the actually the smartest people on the planet, some of the wealthiest, smartest, most connected and resourceful people on the planet. The thing that was going through my mind as you were shaking your head was, is there a year when we don’t do this crap? Is there, like is there a year when like the top people aren’t saying this stuff? I mean, I can’t think of a time when we’re not constantly just predicting doom every single year. I don’t know.

Rabih Dimachki
You

Matt Mulcock
Yeah. Well, and the other thing that stands out to me is that with this one is like the precision in which they, the precision and confidence, like the S and P will retest its lows and then end at 4,200. Like it’s like, what are you talking about? Why are you being so precise?

Ryan Isaac
Yeah, exact. Yeah. Trying to, I mean, you know, they’re trying to deliver some values, some insights, some direction. What’s, what’s crazy though is the most people don’t get paid based on their predictions at all. If they did, they wouldn’t be wealthy. They, they can just like still continue to rack up like a hundred million dollar bonus years and then say the complete wrong thing every single year. And everyone’s, yeah, everyone, yeah, everyone’s like, come on the news and talk to us. Tell us what you think.

Matt Mulcock
No, no, no. Yep, knowing that everyone’s gonna forget.

Ryan Isaac
So, all right, what actually, no, I love this. What actually happened? Yeah.

Matt Mulcock
Yep. Sorry, Rabih. Let’s look at, so just repeat. So S&P will retest lows and then end at 4,200 implying a 5% return for the year was the prediction.

Ryan Isaac
Okay?

Rabih Dimachki
And what actually happened is that the S&P 500 closed 0.5% below its all-time highs at 4780, which implied 25% for the year.

Matt Mulcock
Which was… Oh, okay. They were within a universe. You know, they were within the same universe.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah… Okay.  They were, yeah. I mean, okay. I just want to pause here for a second. What do people do who actually make decisions based on this kind of stuff? Who begin a year, they listen to these really smart people. They have all the resources in the whole world to make this, these kind of statements. And then, I mean, what are people, are people taking action on this stuff? I mean, from a client perspective, um,

It feels like people, when we come off of year like 2023, and there’s this kind of like sentiment that’s gonna happen, these are the predictions, although it feels like that’s every year. Last year, there did feel like a lot of pressure to do something other than stocks at times. You know, like I gotta get out of this stuff, it’s gonna be bad, it’s gonna be bad. It did feel to me like there was pressure on people, on investors wanting to find an alternative place for money because of how scary everything was supposed to be, which again, is like every year, but I don’t know. It just makes you wonder like, people make decisions based on this kind of stuff all the time and that’s scary.

Matt Mulcock
I mean, yeah, I think professional fund managers make decisions off of this kind of stuff, Rabih, right? I mean, there’s like sector rotation type funds and strategies out there that are, I mean, we’ll get to the next one here talking about specific sectors. But yeah, I mean, when I worked at Fidelity, we’d always have these kind of in-house meetings with our PMs that would come in and talk about our sector rotation strategy and the cycles and predicting cycles of recessions and which sectors do better in which cycles.

It happens all the time, not even at the retail or the individual investor side. I think it’s happening even high level professional money managers.

Ryan Isaac
High level, yeah. So that’s a perfect segue, the number three prediction. Unless you wanna add anything to that Rabih, the number three prediction, go ahead and read it. Speaking of sectors.

Rabih Dimachki
That’s fine. Healthcare will be the top performer because in their mind, we’re gonna go into recession. We need this kind of defensive sector where whether we’re in a recession or not, people will still need to go and get their healthcare needs. And given that everything else will be down, healthcare will be the top performer, which didn’t pan out the way we thought.

Ryan Isaac
Hmm.

Matt Mulcock
Yeah, what happened, Rabih?

Ryan Isaac
What happened?

Rabih Dimachki
Healthcare only returned 2.07% for the year and out of all the 11 S&P 500 sectors, it ranks at number 7.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah. 7th out of 11. 7-11.

Matt Mulcock
Okay, can I get the last one? This one’s my favorite. House prices will be, stop, stop.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah, Matt, go. It’s close to home.  Wait, see this would be, if we were cutting this clip right now for Instagram, it would be like, this clip will cut, this will hit close to home. See? This is so good. This is good.

Matt Mulcock
I’m a sucker for dad jokes, dude. I’m a sucker you get me every time. Okay. So it’s going to hit close to home. House prices will be slashed by, I can’t even get it out. House prices will be slashed by 20%. Is the predict was the prediction in 2023. I can’t, I can’t. What happened, Rabih?

Ryan Isaac
And…

Rabih Dimachki
According to the National Home Price Index, it was up 6.9% and this is as of data of October 2023. We still don’t have November and December. But if we take an ETF that tracks the housing market in the US, it was up 11.85% for the year.

Matt Mulcock
That one’s just slightly off. That was the worst one of all the predictions, I think. The most off.

Ryan Isaac
That’s, yeah, that’s big. I’m sure real estate is so dependent on the little area that you might be in. It can change from town to town. But anecdotally, I think about the places that I have lived or do live. And, you know, crazy year for rates. There weren’t many people in the market. Buyers and sellers were scarce, but home on the few that I have seen listed, like in my neighborhood, they all they’ve increased like all of last year, they just kept going up and up and up and rates were at 8%.

Matt Mulcock
Oh yeah. Rates going up rates going up actually made prices go up even more in a lot of areas because nobody was selling the supply just went through the floor. And so their prices not only hung where they were, they actually increased that. I think there’s been a little bit of softening, but it’s, I mean, depending on the area, but yeah, prices have gone nowhere.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah, I mean… Yeah, not what we thought. So the next thing we wanted to talk about was lessons learned, but we can pause first and say out of the predictions and then what actually happened. Do you guys have any thoughts that we didn’t say or that you want to just mention?

Rabih Dimachki
feel that it is crazy that back in 2022 when we looked at these for the first time, I’d be like, yeah, maybe houses won’t go down 20%. But it felt kind of logical for me if they went down 5%. Right? So now that we’re looking in retrospect on what happens, like this was so completely off. But at the time the decision, the predictions were made.

Ryan Isaac
Completely.

Rabih Dimachki
there was a very strong conviction and you felt that you wouldn’t regret your decision and This doesn’t mean that humans are terrible predictors in a sense or else We wouldn’t have had the civilization that we have right now. It’s just that the system we are Interacting with the economy, which is a very dynamic system that feeds on itself is Unpredictable in its nature. It’s not like a chessboard where all the possibilities are known ahead of time. It’s it’s

It’s not you, it’s me. It’s not the humans, it’s the system.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah. I mean, I want to challenge that a little bit. I do think humans are terrible predictors. I think that humans, you can see, I think humans, maybe this is what I would say. This is just, well, I hear that. And I think, I think humans are probably collectively over long periods of time, we probably have good intuition for how things need to evolve and change and how we need to adapt to a changing world slowly, building airplanes, medical technology, all that kind of stuff. But I think humans are terrible predictors.

Matt Mulcock
I was going to say the same thing. Well, and especially in the short term, right? And especially in the context in which we’re trying to predict things like the market. I think when we try to predict things, we try to simplify things down to such an easy to explain story when it’s just so much more complex than that. So I think in the short term with stuff like the market, or really, I mean, you can see this really across the board in anything, even in like…

Ryan Isaac
We’re awful at this stuff, or specific.

Matt Mulcock
Political environment, like insert anything we try to predict, we’re pretty bad at it.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah. It makes me, it’s true, man. It makes me think of, I don’t know where this quote came from, but it’s always stuck with me. Something along the lines of, I only have an opinion on this because you asked me to have one. And it makes me wonder like how, how many of these people really want to be throwing out predictions like this? I know some do. Like we know, we know people like that who just thrive on predicting the world’s ending like every year cause they’re selling something. But

Matt Mulcock
Yeah. Of course, or they’re, they want to sound smart. And let’s be real, pessimism sounds smart.

Ryan Isaac
But they just want to sound smart and that’s the smartest way to do it. Yeah. But it makes me wonder how many of these people would rather just stay locked up in their offices, crunching numbers or working with their teams or innovating rather than getting on news programs or writing blog posts through three or four people and making predictions, you know, our, our media and us as consumers of news and financial news, we just want to be entertained. And so we’re like, we’re, we’re creating the demand for people at these levels to like supply us with these kinds of statements.

You know, it’s like this vicious, ugly cycle.

Matt Mulcock
Well, okay, this just happened to me the other day. I was at my brother’s house watching the national championship game. And during a commercial, my brother turns to me and he goes, Hey man, what’s going on with the market? Like what’s going to happen this year? And you feel my initial response or my initial like desire to respond is one of not saying, bro, I have no idea what’s going to happen with them. Like you don’t want to say that even though that is the truth.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah, yeah.  That’s the truth. That’s the answer.

Matt Mulcock
So I get it. Like people find out what we do for work. I’m sure this is even worse for Rabih because of like his level of like involvement in the, like, but even people find out I’m an advisor or I work for. The firm that we do people almost immediately say, Oh, like what’s going to happen. So to your point, Ryan, I understand the pressure to give an answer. I I’ve done it before. And then I finished the answer and I’m like, what the heck did I just say?

Ryan Isaac
Mm-hmm. Why did I say that? Yeah.

Matt Mulcock
Why would I have just said that? Like it makes no sense. Why just, well, you know, house prices might be slashed because of rates and who knows what happens, like you just make crap up because you feel the pressure. So the times that by a hundred, by these groups who literally have a whole team created to, to provide this stuff. And like you said, it’s only cause they’re asked. They’re just giving the market what they demand.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah. Totally. It’s only because they’re asked. The worst is when people, yeah, word to Manny, it’s worse when people ask you that question after you tell them what you do for a living and then they throw it like a ticker symbol or a specific mutual fund and they’re like, what do you think about XTI? And you’re like, I don’t know. Strong to quite strong, strong to quite strong. We should probably just memorize lines from that movie and then just repeat those. Yeah, how’s your portfolio, Greg?

Matt Mulcock
Yeah. Uh, seems like a strong to quite strong on the balance sheet seems strong. Yeah. Yep.

Matt Mulcock
How’s your portfolio look this year? Strong to quite strong? Ha ha ha.

Ryan Isaac
strong to quite strong. I’m gonna start saying that, that’s it. Okay, wow, that was a little derailed, but let’s go into what.

Matt Mulcock
Rabih is sitting here being like, these idiots, what are we doing here?

Ryan Isaac
Well, yeah, well, this actually goes right into Rabih’s first point of what he put in here, which is what did we learn last year? Your point number one, I’ll just read it and then tell us why you thought this, Rabih, even though it’s what we’re talking about. Predicting doesn’t work. That was your number one lesson. Anything else you want to add on that topic?

Rabih Dimachki
No, it’s not.

Rabih Dimachki
Yes, it’s whether we think humans are good predictors, but the system is unpredictable, or whether we think humans are bad predictors to start with. Even those PhD people who are putting out this research, that is wrong. We don’t have a model that perfectly represents and describes reality the way it should be. So most of the time, the model is going to be off. And if we think that’s our source of confidence in making a prediction, that will also be wrong. And that’s why the world is too complex.

Ryan Isaac
Yep. The world is too complex and we just keep doing…

Matt Mulcock
And yet we keep doing it, right? We, again, we keep, we keep creating models that is based on a rational, on rational actors when we all know that there, there’s no such thing as rational actors, right? So inherently those models are flawed, right? I mean, they, they know that right when they’re making the model, they have to. So.

Ryan Isaac
You know that reminds me of Matt, as you’re saying that. The other demand that’s being created here has to be on the other side of, you said we keep creating these models. It’s because a lot of these models are created and these statements are made in order to sell things. There’s always a way to take advantage of the public when this kind of feeling or sentiment is out there about the economy, and then there’s just stuff to sell. When you can make people feel certain emotions. And that’s probably the other side of the demand that gets created is really smart people who are great capitalists understand that if they can provide that emotion to a public that’s looking and asking for opinions, then they can also sell products to them. And we see that happen all the time when fear gets involved. Right. Yeah. I want to hear that. I want to hear what’s behind the smirk. We hear this all the time.

Matt Mulcock
Rabih’s smirking, but…

Rabih Dimachki
No, no, just like the simplest example. No, no, the simple example I can think of, I agree with Ryan, is like all these Bitcoin ETFs that showed up yesterday out of nowhere. Like this is all I’m thinking about. Yeah, earlier on two cents.

Matt Mulcock
Was that too cynical, Rabih? Oh, we just talked about this. Yeah. We just talked about this on two cents, Ryan, that Rabih tell them the breakdown of like kind of the SEC, like the timing and how many funds got produced in one day and not part of it. I mean, they were already there, but.

Ryan Isaac
Ooh, I was gonna ask you about this, yeah.

Rabih Dimachki
Yeah, nothing. The point was that this has been in the making for a while. Most of the time, they were futures of Bitcoin in those ETFs. They’re finally going to put spots or like the actual currency in those ETFs. And all those big investment management firms, because they are fighting for the demand of consumers who are like yearning to get those bitcoins. The day the SEC approves it, the next day, 10 new ETFs are listed and they started trading. Usually it takes weeks. One day.

Matt Mulcock
Yeah, within one day. Yeah. They were ready locked and loaded. Yep. Yeah, that’s it. I mean, that’s a good point, Ryan, because if you, if you listen to, Rabih just mentioned at the beginning, where do these predictions come from? And everyone he listed outside of Reddit. Was a honestly was a group was a bank or Motley fool. It was, it was someone who gets paid to grab your attention with these types of things and then try to sell you something like that’s exactly what it is.

Ryan Isaac
Yep. Okay, so bank making products. It’s a very toxic cycle. Yeah, it’s a huge market. It’s like a toxic cycle between us as consumers who demand entertainment through our news and we demand opinions. And then people who create products who are incentivized by capitalism and money and growth and scale and new product sales, they go, all right, we’ll give you an answer and then here’s a product to solve the fear that I’m creating in you. And it’s just like this cycle, yeah, on and on. Number two, Rabih, oh yeah, what? Oh, really?

Matt Mulcock
It’s a huge market. We’ll fix it. Yep. So true. You know what? You just gave me an idea. We’re going to start doing that. Yeah. That’s a new strategy. Here it is guys. Next, next section of this podcast is the DA predictions for 2024 doomsday. You have to hire us. You followed by you have to hire us or you’re going to be doomed. So there you go, Ryan. You just gave me the new strategy.

Ryan Isaac
I don’t even want to make a comment. Yeah, followed by followed by a product. Yeah, you’re going to die. Uh, jeez. Uh, number two, Rabih, you put recency bias, uh, affects people. That’s the number two lesson that you learned last year. What do you mean by that?

Rabih Dimachki
Well, I’ll ask you guys, how optimistic are you about 2024?

Ryan Isaac
Yeah, uh-huh, yeah.

Rabih Dimachki
How much of that optimism stems from the fact that 2023 was a really good year?

Matt Mulcock
Oh yeah, riding high, riding high. Yep. Totally. Well, and his was funny too. We were talking about, Ryan, you asked at the very beginning, what was happening in 2022 at the end going into 2023 and how bad the sentiment was. Right. And we said there was nowhere to hide with investing, right? There was really nowhere to hide. Everywhere, everywhere you invested, you were losing money. It is literally the mirror. It is the exact opposite right now.

Ryan Isaac
That’s exactly it. Yeah, that’s exactly it.

Matt Mulcock
There is nowhere you can invest in 2020 or that you were investing in 2023 that you didn’t lose that you were negative outside of what Rabih, what was the only thing volatility futures. We had to dig into the, the deep, the deep chest for that one. But I just, so it’s just interesting to that point of how different the exact opposite thing happened just 12 months later, and I’m sure.

Ryan Isaac
I know.

Rabih Dimachki
volatility futures.

Matt Mulcock
whatever happens, we’re going to be doing this show again in 2020 or the end or beginning of 2025 and it’s going to be the same thing. Like who knows what’s going to happen, but it’s not going to be what everyone’s predicting.

Ryan Isaac
Can’t wait. Yeah. Such a good point. Yeah, we’re so, as humans, we’re so subject to the momentum of what’s recently happened around us and thinking that’s the reality and that’s what’s gonna continue. Okay, the last one, Rabih, you put Things You Learn, number three was the illusion of control is real.

Rabih Dimachki
Yes, and I think part of why we say the S&P will retest its lows and then go back to 4200 levels is because we are creating anchors in our mind that allow us to feel that this is our sense of control. And in reality, no matter what break-even level or a resistance level that you are going to set on a chart,

Ryan Isaac
Mmm.

Rabih Dimachki
None of it matter and you’re never gonna control them. What you really can’t control is risk management in a portfolio. That’s something you can control by buying and selling. Controlling where, you know, taking your predictions, thinking the stock will go there and using that as a basis to feel a sense of control. That’s just like loving the wrong person. Like it doesn’t work.

Matt Mulcock
Rabih’s using a lot of peace out. We’re done. Call it a call it in there. Get Rabih. That one hit home right there.

Ryan Isaac
See you guys. That’s where I exit. This is, I’ll see you guys later. You’re now, we are now, we are now in my therapy sessions and I don’t know how we got here. Yeah, well, it’s very pointed. Well, you just gave us the next idea for the next podcast with us three, which I think should be, what do you control in your investing experience in your portfolio?

Rabih Dimachki
It’s personal, you know?

Matt Mulcock
Rabih, that seemed awfully pointed.

Ryan Isaac
So thanks for those comments. Matt, anything that you would want to say about the illusion of control, Robby pointed out.

Matt Mulcock
No, I mean, I mean, I always have something to say, I’m sorry, but, uh, you’re right. That was non-assertive language. I should not, I’m keeping my power guys. Um, no, I think it just speaks to when I, when Rabih was saying that, I think the biggest, well, the, the biggest fear of investors and I think humans in general is uncertainty. So I understand kind of the other side of this, where we all, to Rabih’s point, we all want to feel like we have control.

Ryan Isaac
Don’t start with an apology. Keep your power, protect your feet.

Matt Mulcock
And I think that’s why this kind of stuff works so well. Predictions and the things that these, these groups are spouting is because. To Rabih’s point, the thing we fear the most is uncertainty and they are selling. That’s what kind of what they’re selling. They are selling control. They’re selling like you have control over this. Nobody wants to hear that from year to year, you have no idea what’s going to happen and you can’t control it. Like nobody wants to hear that truth. They hate that.

Ryan Isaac
Control. Yes, the illusion of control. You’re so right.

Matt Mulcock
So when they’re pitching and selling, uh, in fact, we were just talking about this in another episode, I think, uh, on two cents or something. When we were talking about a lot of time, or it’s so hard to change someone’s oh, it was the Charlie Munger episode. Uh, Charlie Munger said he’s never been able to change anyone’s mind ever. Basically. And we, I feel that as an advisor. And I think a lot of it is because people just seek out the quote unquote advice.

Or these predictions or things that confirms what they want to hear. And what they want to hear is that this is controllable, that they’re in the driver’s seat and at some point you got to just realize there are aspects of this that you are not in the driver’s seat. You, you set yourself up as best you possibly can probabilities and placing your bets, but there’s certain things on this, you’re just going to have to be like a little bit of faith basically. And people don’t like that.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah. Oh, I, that’s such a poignant thing to think about. I, um, the things that go through my head when I hear this, I, my oldest just turned 18 and anyone who has teenagers, you just slowly realize as a parent, how little you control. You think you control a lot when they’re little kids and they just keep getting all of your like, I actually control like nothing. And, uh, that is not a good feeling in any way with your money, with your life, the family relationship. That’s a.

Matt Mulcock
Yeah.

Ryan Isaac
That’s a scary thing. And you’re right. We do as humans just have this, even if it’s fake security, we just want it. We want the illusion of control or to shout out a great, uh, kind of punk rock album from like 20 years ago, the illusion of safety, thrice little, but yes.

Matt Mulcock
Yeah. I actually, I actually read, I actually read a fantastic quote that fits here really quick and I’m taking a risk because it’s coming off the top of my head. I’m going to probably screw it up. We’re going to take a risk here. And so, but it was something along the lines of fear is the unacceptance of uncertainty. Start accepting uncertainty and it becomes adventure. And I was like, Oh, that’s actually pretty killer.

Rabih Dimachki
Thanks for watching!

Ryan Isaac
Chris, this is 2024. It’s the new you. New year. Go. Whoa. Okay. That’s true.

Matt Mulcock
You start accepting uncertainty and it just becomes adventure. Investing can be fun and adventurous, but you got to accept the uncertainty.

Ryan Isaac
You do, man. There’s so many, there’s so many parallels. And when you go on an adventure, there are things you still control. I mean, you can still bring a map and extra water and you can still Rabih go paddle out in a place that doesn’t have 10 foot waves or too many sharks, uh, or rocks, you know, like you still have. So like, yeah, you’re right. I like that adventure because even on an adventure, when you can’t control everything and you don’t know what’s coming all the time, you can enjoy, you can enjoy the unpredictability of it.

Matt Mulcock
We were talking about surfing before we started recording.

Ryan Isaac
and the newness of it, you still can have some protections along the way. You can still have some safety that is in your control, which is why I love it. We’ll come back and do that. I think that’d be good.

Matt Mulcock
Yeah, that’s a good call, Ryan. We should talk about that on another show.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah, what do you control? Okay, where was that quote from, Matt? Do you know? Real fast?

Matt Mulcock
I think it was Rumi, I want to say, um, philosopher, Indian philosopher, I believe I was reading in a, uh, I don’t know, it was some book I was reading the other day, I don’t know, they just caught me and I wrote it down and I was like, Oh, that’s killer. I’m going to use that. And here we are. I’m using it.

Ryan Isaac
Okay. That actually is perfect right there. Okay, Rabih, notable events. He’s here. No, no.

Matt Mulcock
Have we lost Rabih? Ryan, I think we’ve lost Rabih. This is his second show of the day, and Rabih has told me this takes a lot out of him. So, understandably so, his brain is so powerful. Anyway, so I just don’t wanna make, I wanna make sure we’re not losing Rabih with our banter.

Rabih Dimachki
No, no, no. Not at all.

Ryan Isaac
Uh… Yeah. It’s going so much faster than ours.

Rabih Dimachki
That’s fine. I really like I really liked what you guys saying because it fits in. Let me like take you on a walk on what was happening in my brain for a second. I was thinking like if we have a skeptical listener on the show and they’re like, OK, this is an investment management firm that works with dentists. They are telling us that other investment firms are selling us the sense of control. What are they doing? And then Ryan said.

Ryan Isaac
We rob you. Please take us on a walk. Let’s go, let’s stroll.

Matt Mulcock
Take me on a walk.

Rabih Dimachki
really rings a bell. Like when you are going surfing, you have stuff to control. And I think the value proposition from an investment perspective here at DA is more about we’re not selling you control. We are selling you the ability to have someone navigate the risks with. We are not controlling the risks. We’re just navigating them with you.

Ryan Isaac
Whoa. Yeah, like this next Thursday, you’re going out to California, you’re gonna surf and you hired an instructor. Right, okay.

Rabih Dimachki
Exactly.

Matt Mulcock
I, yeah. And to that point, Rabih, I also think we’re selling, if we want to call it, like we’re selling the, the pragmatic and practical approach of like helping you filter what you can and cannot control, right? We’re selling reality. Like that’s, we’re just for better or for worse, we’re pragmatically, we’re pragmatic in our approach and saying, look, we acknowledge there’s only so many things we can control, we’re not going to pretend to tell you that we can. But the things we can control, let’s focus on those things.

Ryan Isaac
Reality. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock
And I think that’s and help you navigate to your point, Rabih, we’re also sell hugs. Cause sometimes you need them. You know what I mean? Like sometimes people just need, even if it’s like emotional or psychological hug, we do that a lot as well. It’s like, Hey guys, it’s going to be okay. You know, you’re going to give you a hug. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac
I love that. Consensual with permission. Yeah. Let’s give you a hug through the phone. Uh, I though those are great points. Um, all of those notable events, 2023 that did affect markets or seem to have affected markets, uh, take it away, Rabih.

Rabih Dimachki
All right, I’m just gonna list them all together and we’ll.

Ryan Isaac
This is like, yeah, and I like these. This is like trip down memory lane. Like they seem, isn’t news, the news is so crazy and everything seems so big and then you don’t even remember a week later because there’s something. Yeah, okay, go, yeah. Yeah, who’s insane?

Matt Mulcock
I was just gonna say that. Yeah. The first one, the first one. It’s like, do you remember when that happened?

Rabih Dimachki
Yeah. The first one was the SVB collapse, the Silicon Valley Bank, and then all the other banks that happened afterwards. Afterwards, we’ve got inflation starting to trend down. We’ve got job openings narrowing in the economy, and that’s all because of the increase in the federal reserve interest rates. And then at the end of the year, we’re like, okay, the Fed is starting to pause rate hikes.

Matt Mulcock
Feels like 10 years ago.

Rabih Dimachki
And you know, you saw all the magnificent seven posts, really high returns around like 60% for the year, to an extent that some indices like the NASDAQ had to do a special rebalancing. Those were.

Ryan Isaac
Can you explain that part, Magnificent 7 and the rebalancing? Can you explain that real fast?

Rabih Dimachki
Yes, so most of these index funds or the ETFs that track the index funds, they are going to hold the companies that are in the index. In the example of NASDAQ, NASDAQ has 100 stocks on it, but the top seven holdings in NASDAQ were the magnificent seven, which are Apple, NVIDIA, Meta, Google, Tesla, Netflix, and I hope I didn’t forget any one of those. But those bunch of companies, as we did, I think, a podcast about it back in March when it was happening, posted really high returns. We’re talking like in a video, like 200% for the year. Their weight in the portfolio compared to the remaining 100 companies got so inflated that the index provider themselves felt that this is too much concentrated risk in one security, that they pushed a special rebalance just to diversify.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah, good to know. And these are things you just listed that did affect markets, which is good to know. Anything you wanna add or say about that, Matt?

Matt Mulcock
Uh, no, I just, I can’t, I can’t get off the fact that SVP that collapsed and like the impending fear that happened for, or that was kind of going for. Yeah. And that lasted probably what Rabih a couple of months, like the actual fear around it, oh, eight Oh nine type of like level collapse, uh, that just, it’s crazy how long ago that feels that was just last year and I’m not kidding you. It feels to me, it feels like that was 10 years ago.

Ryan Isaac
Every startup and PE and venture capital. I know 10 years ago. I know.

Matt Mulcock
Uh, it’s just wild how fast things move. And again, I think part of, I think part of it was again, everybody was predicting a recession, so every single thing that Rabih just mentioned here, it was like, Oh, this is it, this is happening. And like, it was almost magnified and then it just dissipated and we moved on and like nothing happened. So it’s for whatever reason, SVB specifically, and that collapse and all that.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah, this is the one. Uh-huh.

Matt Mulcock
feels like it was 10 years ago. The same thing we didn’t even mention here, which I understand why it wasn’t like as part of the main market, but the FTX scandal, that also feels like it was 10 years ago and wasn’t that just last year? Yes. Wasn’t FTX last year? Like it’s just wild to me, these things that like so much stuff coming at us all the time that these major events just come, go, gone. And it’s just like, oh yeah, that happened. It’s just, it blows my mind.

Ryan Isaac
Oh, geez. Yeah, uh-huh. That was last year? Whoa.

Rabih Dimachki
Yeah.

Ryan Isaac
That’s insane. Yeah, that and which ones will make a long-term impact and then which ones even, so there’s another list here, let’s get to what things happened that seemingly didn’t have a big impact on markets. Rabih will let you go through those, but it’s crazy. There’s some things on this coming list that are bigger or could have been way bigger than, you know, SVB collapsing and then.

Rabih Dimachki
Mm-hmm.

Matt Mulcock
And that’s the, that’s the key, right? Ryan is I’m sitting here thinking, and we’re going to go through the next list, but as we do, I’m sitting here thinking, why, why did the first ones you listed have an impact and why did it, why did this list that there’s some things that we’re going to talk about? In fact, there’s a couple on here specifically one that I’m like, way bigger than anything that you just listed and it didn’t have even a little bit of an impact on the market. Like

Ryan Isaac
What? Yeah. Dude, way bigger. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock
Again, coming back to this idea that predicting things is so hard. Why are these things not impacting and what, and why are these other ones actually making it just, it does, it doesn’t make any sense. Make it make sense.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah, it’s like another level of, yeah, it’s like, make it make sense, please doc. Yeah, Rabih, what’s the list? Comment, let’s go, let’s go, Rabih.

Rabih Dimachki
Okay.

Matt Mulcock
Rabih’s like, come, let’s go, let’s go, Rabih.

Rabih Dimachki
The way you make sense, the way you can make sense of it, other than the fact that you have to go… No, no, wait, let me…

Matt Mulcock
Rabih’s like, you want me to explain it to you, Matt?

Ryan Isaac
I can’t. Here’s the formula. I know the math on this.

Rabih Dimachki
You guys made me forget my point. Okay, hold on. Okay, okay. So you can make sense of them if you go one by one into each. But the ripple effect of each event and how it gets absorbed into the market is what would allow it to have a long-term lasting impact. So if SBB collapsed, right, people panicked. The S&P 500 dropped back to what it was at the beginning of the year.

Matt Mulcock
Oh no, oh no!

Rabih Dimachki
all the gains that it made January, February, it lost them. But suddenly with the government intervention with FDIC and the banks taking over, they kind of controlled the risk in the market. And what could have become a big problem only affected the market for two months. Whereas there are other stuff that we think are important, but if you look at the dynamics and the blueprint, they don’t connect to create a cycle or a spiral that would allow other stuff to break. So…

Rabih Dimachki
geopolitical event can happen and we think that’s horrendous, but given that it has an end to it and how it propagates into the economy, it doesn’t trickle down to affect markets.

Matt Mulcock
I mean, I said, make it make sense. And Rabih just did. Yeah. Weird wish granted. Yeah. Let’s hit it.

Ryan Isaac
It’s so hard. He did, he just wished granted. What’s the list, Rabih? What’s on the list?

Rabih Dimachki
Okay, notable events that did not really affect the markets, although we thought they would. House speaker votes and vacancies. We went through like 15 votes and then a vacancy. The unfortunate Israel and Palestine war that’s happening and still continues to happen. The Chinese spy balloon and the… We all thought they had control over our bank accounts. And then…

Matt Mulcock
Oh, remember that one? Yeah. Oh, that was fun.

Ryan Isaac
Oh, it was huge. The spy balloon, man. The spy balloon.

Matt Mulcock
The irony.

Rabih Dimachki
The United Workers strikes in like Ford, GM, and all those manufacturing power plants related to car manufacturing, as well as the Fitch downgrading the US credit worthiness from AAA to AA+. All of these are very notable, and I think we’ve done a couple of two cents about them that the impact, the ripple effect of each doesn’t really propagate into the markets to affect.

Matt Mulcock
Can I, sorry, can I just say one thing? Is there anything more ironic than people going on TikTok to talk about the Chinese spy balloon? It’s like, you’re, you’re like, seriously. TikTok is the biggest Chinese spy balloon ever invented. And they are openly telling you they are stealing your data and people are going on TikTok to talk about a balloon over Montana. And it’s like that balloon that you are talking about is not

Ryan Isaac
Matt was just… Yeah, go ahead. No, go ahead. Yes. TikTok is the Chinese spy balloon. It is the… It is.

Matt Mulcock
the problem, it’s the device in your hand that they’re openly. It’s it’s like, it’s again, that also make it make sense. Like it, anyway, it’s so crazy to me.

Ryan Isaac
They just got you to, yeah, they just got a billion people to like post on TikTok about it. It’s wild. Matt, have you ever seen people do videos where they go through the actual like 300 page term and conditions of Tik TOK, where they show you what you actually grant access to on your phone? It’s frightening. It’s, it is wild. It is actually wild. Matt, you were just saying this earlier. This, this just speaks to one of the points we were making about how hard predictions are not only do you have to predict what’s going to happen, when it’s going to happen, how long it’ll last. You have to be right about its impact.

Matt Mulcock
No, but I can only imagine it’s wild. Yeah. Yeah

Ryan Isaac
On the financial markets. And it’s just so hard. It’s so tough. Yeah, go ahead.

Matt Mulcock
I mean, sorry, just to that point, Ryan, we talked about this a little bit with COVID. Look at March 2020 to the summer of 2020, right? Just from a market specific, right? Don’t forget what was actually happening in the real world. We know the tragedy and the sadness there and how crazy that whole time was, but just the market of what happened within that first 30 days and then 90 days to follow. To your point.

Ryan Isaac
Yep. I know.

Matt Mulcock
You know, one in the world could have predicted how wild that market would have been and that we would have had the year of 2020 that we did. When you, if you would have said to someone in 2019, we’re going to have a global pandemic and the market’s going to go wild positively in the positive direction. We’re going to have like record breaking years. No one would ever believe you.

Ryan Isaac
Yeah. I don’t know why. Yeah, I was just on the phone with a client this morning. We’re going to make an episode out of this because he’s going to record an audio note and send it to us. We’re going to play it. But he was talking about it. He was going to talk. He was talking about, um, he’s kind of a watch guy. He’s like, he likes watches, which anyone who can see this, I, I’m a watch guy too. I’m wearing my 1985 Casio calculator watch, $19 on Amazon. Actually they’re $23 now. They’ve gone up in value.

Matt Mulcock
Oh heck yeah. Yeah, clearly.

Rabih Dimachki
Thank you.

Matt Mulcock
Oh, inflation, inflation.

Rabih Dimachki
Inflation.

Ryan Isaac
He was talking about, he’s a watch guy, he’s a collector. And in 2020, there was this watch. I can’t even remember the brand of it. I had to Google it. Never heard of it before. It was like a $20,000 watch at the time. By the middle of that year, it was worth $100,000 in the pandemic. And we were, we were just talking about how nuts, who would have thought that collector’s items, like something seemingly useless in the middle of like the worst thing our generation has seen happen in the world and economy and workforce in a long time, uh, you know,

Matt Mulcock
Oof.

Ryan Isaac
Was five X in a few months during like this horrible, horrible time when we’re trying to buy toilet paper and watches are like five Xing, you know? So your point, it’s just, it’s fascinating what ends up happening in hindsight versus, you know, before it happens or during. So, um, I think one conclusion from this is that we do need to, I was going to ask the question, so what can we control? What can we do? That’s a whole other episode. So we’ll just kind of hang it and tease it there and say,

Matt Mulcock
Yeah, the power of boredom.

Ryan Isaac
we’ll come back for maybe a part two of what do we control? Obviously these are things out of our control. We can’t see coming, we can’t predict how. Give me the answer. So we’ll do that. We’ll do what can you control as a market investor? What is in your control? Any parting words though that you guys wanna add to this?

Matt Mulcock
Everyone’s like, give me the answer. I don’t want to follow Rabih. I hate following Rabih.

Ryan Isaac
You go first then I know.

Rabih Dimachki
No, I’m trying to pull a mat and come up with the code, but all I can think of, Mark.

Matt Mulcock
Is getting a wait, is pull is reading a quote, pulling a mat. I kind of appreciate that. I’ll take that. Thank you. Thank you so much. I love that. Warm is my heart. Go ahead.

Ryan Isaac
Pulling a mat. Yeah, it’s pulling a mat. That’s cool. That’s cool. Yeah, it is. Huge compliment. Pull a mat.

Rabih Dimachki
That’s a compliment. Yeah, that’s 100% compliment. And I also don’t know it word for word, but I can think of Mark Twain saying, I can think of Mark Twain saying that history doesn’t repeat itself, but it really rhymes. And every single year trying to come up with predictions for the stock market is just history rhyming with you making the same mistake. And that’s why I didn’t come up with predictions for this episode, just saying.

Matt Mulcock
I paraphrase all the time. Yeah.  I love it. I, I have a prediction that is actually going to be.

Ryan Isaac
That was actually the next, that’s part three. What are the predictions for this year? That’s part three. What is one right now, yeah.

Matt Mulcock
I have one prediction. I have one prediction that is actually going to be a hundred percent accurate. And guys, just go with me for a second. It’s going to be a shameless plug. But the Dennis Money Summit coming up in June is going to be the best dental conference you’ve ever been to. That is a prediction. Mark it. Time stamp it.

Ryan Isaac
I’m here. I’m with you, okay? Oh, yes, okay.

Matt Mulcock
Come in June and tell me I’m wrong after you’re done on June 20. You can talk to me on June 22nd or 22nd and tell me I was wrong, but you got to sign up and come. That’s my prediction.

Ryan Isaac
Let him know. That’s prediction. And you just do that by going to denisadvisors.com. Find the summit. Limited space. Dennis Money Summit. Okay. Denn Limited space. I like the prediction. I’m going to… Yeah, we’ll podcast that. Probably should.

Matt Mulcock
Dennis Money Summit. Are we going to do a live podcast there on stage and live Q and A? We probably will. You want to come hang out with Rabih Ryan and I’ll be there too. Yeah, you should mostly Rabih and Ryan, but I will also be there and it’ll be, it’ll be amazing. So that’s my prediction. Shameless plug. Not even, not even, not even ashamed by it, to be honest.

Ryan Isaac
Mostly Ravi. Yes. Mostly Ravi. We’ll be there. Join us. Thank you, Matt. We’d love to have… No, we would love to see people. Our business started 16 years ago and everything was in person and now it is definitely not in person. And it’s so… It is really nice to actually see the people that we’re on the phone and emailing with and zooming with in person and have such a good time. So Dennis Money Summit.

Matt Mulcock
We, we just had lunch today. Sorry. Really quick, Rabih, Justin and I just had lunch today, reminiscing about the old good old days of, of DA and Justin said something pretty spot on and it’s kind of interesting now we’re putting on this summit and Justin was like, man, can you believe that like we got through that time? Like we didn’t know any, we didn’t know what we were doing at all. Like, and we, cause we did it like just from a business standpoint, right. And it’s kind of crazy to see where we’ve come and now putting on this summit. Like it’s, you just said 16 years. Like it’s.

Ryan Isaac
So true. Yeah. And we’ll say the same thing in 10 years. We’ll look back and think the same thing probably. Um, okay. So I just, uh, my prediction is we’re going to come back with, I think we need to do 2024 prediction list. That’s an episode. And then we’re going to come back and do what do you actually control out of all of this episode? So here’s two more. That’s my prediction. Two more episodes coming and you can bank on that. You can book it. Book it.

Matt Mulcock
It’s pretty crazy. It’s cool. Two more that you can book that you can book that one. Ryan and I just made two predictions that are like set done. For sure happening.

Rabih Dimachki
Hehe

Ryan Isaac
for sure happening. They’re on the calendar. They’re on the calendar. Rabih, thanks for taking so much time podcasting multiple times a day and having like all of this data and we love you, man. Thank you so much. Maddie, as always, it’s just, it’s just fun every time. Thank you for doing it, man. It’s a good time. We have such a good time. That’s our goal. Every time we stand behind a boom mic and put on headphones and blather stuff and all of you, all of you listening and tuning in all these years, it’s been like eight and a half years of the Dennis Monies show. So thank you for tuning in.

Matt Mulcock
Rabih, we love you.

Rabih Dimachki
Love you guys.

Matt Mulcock
always. That’s always fun. You’re like zero value, but we have good time. Yeah, let’s do this. Couple of fools.

Ryan Isaac
If you have any questions, denismoney.com. No, denismoney.com, that probably actually goes there. Denisadvisors.com. Does Dennis Money?

Matt Mulcock
Dennisadvisor.com. It’s no longer a big green button, by the way. It is now a yellow button. It’s a yellow button. New year, new website. Yep. Got to get used to that.

Ryan Isaac
Oh, what is it now? It’s a yellow button. Dennisadvisors.com big yellow button. Okay. Thanks everyone. I’ll catch you. Catch you next time on another episode of Dennis Money Show. Thanks everybody. Bye bye.

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