Are You Chasing Status Or Building Wealth? – Episode #555

Are you striving for the high-status symbols of success, or are you focused on building lasting wealth? On this episode of the Dentist Money Show, Matt, Victoria, and Ryan discuss choices, strategies, and mindset that will help you navigate the fine line between status and wealth.

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Podcast Transcript

Intro: Hey, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the dentist Monday show brought to you by dentist advisors. Another fantastic show today. I actually love this conversation in studio. Victoria, Ryan and I talked about really the question around are you chasing status or building wealth and things to be thinking about questions to be asking yourself as you go to make investment decisions and really around those two things.

It’s just a status move or is this something that’s going to help my balance sheet and help my financial life by building wealth. Really critical question. And we have a great conversation, share different insights and experiences as always. Hope you enjoy the show.

Matt Mulcock: . So what prompted this was a few months ago. You know how you have those like periods of time as an advisor, where it feels like every one of your clients is asking you about some random investment.

Victoria Ferguson: this.

Ryan Isaac: Mhm It goes in phases

Matt Mulcock: Yeah it goes in phases and I had a week in particular, probably two or three months ago. And we’re just getting around to this, two or three months ago, I had a week,

it felt like every conversation I was having with a client and every email coming in from a client, it just happened to be around

Victoria Ferguson: got more,

Matt Mulcock: what I would call like

alternative status chasing investment.

Ryan Isaac: Sure

Matt Mulcock: And so I didn’t get, Irritated.

I got more, just more inquisitive of like, what is happening? Why are, why are these all coming in this week? And then I slacked you guys in the content channel and I was like, we got to talk about this. So that’s kind of the context of, the difference. I was thinking like, there’s a huge difference between chasing status and building wealth.

And I think it’s worth talking about, like breaking that down. Like, what are the differences? Like, how do you identify? When you’re trying to chase status versus actually building wealth. And so there’s the backstory. I’m

Ryan Isaac: curious, did any economic news trigger stand out? Like, was there something going on that you remember?

Matt Mulcock: Yeah. Not really. I mean, I can’t remember the backdrop.

Ryan Isaac: There’s nothing this year

Matt Mulcock: it was nothing happening. It wasn’t like, it wasn’t like 2020. It wasn’t like post

Ryan Isaac: Pre election.

Matt Mulcock: maybe pre election, but nothing was like connected. It was like all these random

Ryan Isaac: is it ever really connecting, connected anyway? You know, like the news story and then the, yeah.

Okay.

Matt Mulcock: It just happened to be one of those things that I had probably 10.

To 15 like slash like conversations slash emails.

Ryan Isaac: Maybe they’re in the same groups like, Facebook groups or mastermind groups.

Matt Mulcock: Totally unrelated. I mean that no connection I could find.

Ryan Isaac: I feel like that’s probably the only connection that I ever see is like they’re in the same group study club mastermind

Matt Mulcock: happened before.

That’s where, you know, because we have certain groups we talk to or we know these people are, some of these clients are in similar Facebook groups or like mastermind groups and we do know. We always are like, oh, you must have just

Ryan Isaac: the whole, the presentation. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock: Must have been your annual summit that you

Ryan Isaac: Yeah.

Matt Mulcock: all of a sudden the questions come in, but this wasn’t like that I don’t think this was all disconnected.

It’s just one of those random things

Ryan Isaac: was there a theme with the type of alternative investment?

Matt Mulcock: No, that’s what’s crazy There was like so many different things some things I’d never even heard of know we’ve always joked around how you get those random like things You know, a client will send you like a tick talk or an Instagram. You’re like, what do you think? And I was like some random influencer talking about some random investment or why the stock market, you know, is you’re never going to get wealthy building or with the stock market, that kind of stuff, but this was just all random stuff, but it just got me thinking by the end of the week.

I was like, Holy cow. We got to talk about this.

Victoria Ferguson: like this topic because I feel like those two, chasing status and building wealth, very much get murky and it’s very, I feel like oftentimes people are masking one with the other and convincing themselves, no, this is building wealth, but in reality it’s very much a status chaser.

Ryan Isaac: masking one with the other. Convincing themselves, no, this is building.

Matt Mulcock: around something. you know, this reminds me of two, I think it’s,

Ryan Isaac: I mean, first of all, this is just a very common thing that we probably all experience in some realm of our lives. It just so happens we Work with dentists and money. on the dentist money show at dentist advisors feels like the similar conversation when people want to push their practices Into new territories that they don’t really want to do.

They just feel like it’s something they have to chase because that’s the culture

Victoria Ferguson: of

Ryan Isaac: dentistry and growth in dentistry or it’s the pressure of their peer group or something.

Victoria Ferguson: checklist.

Ryan Isaac: Yeah. It’s the checklist of things that you’re supposed to do to be successful. And so it kind of feels like the same. I

Matt Mulcock: I should do this or yeah

Ryan Isaac: I should. Yeah. This feels like the pressure,

Victoria Ferguson: pressure. Well, you almost seem naive if you don’t. Yeah. Right. Like you’re going

Ryan Isaac: Yeah. Like you’re going to be left out. You’re the dumb one. Yeah. You’re doing it wrong. And that’s a crappy feeling.

Matt Mulcock: This is so true.

It’s like,

this isn’t just around investing. This is around life Like which lens are you looking through status or wealth? And I think it’s a really, really important to take a step back and ask yourself when you’re trying to make a decision to run anything with your life or money is this exact thing.

But you just reminded me, I just had a conversation recently last week with a client. They are killing it, doing really well. You know, they did a startup and we’re like four or five years in now. And they’re, at a level, profitabilities off the charts, cashflow, paying down debt. Like they’re in a great place, single producer.

And we had a call and they were like, I think it’s time to bring on an associate. I said, and I was like, cool. Like, sounds good. tell me what is prompting that or what excites you about that? Like why? And there they kind of were sitting there for a second. They’re like,

I don’t know, like, aren’t we supposed to?

Victoria Ferguson: do you need

Matt Mulcock: I’m like, well, do you want to? And they were like, well, maybe not.

we went through the whole conversation over an hour conversation around what it means and the different factors to consider and the larger staff. And. Just all these different things and, we’re going to talk again, but the whole point was like, they didn’t even think about it.

We like got in that conversation and they were, they’d never even sat and been like, we, they were just like, Oh, we’re, you’re supposed to do this. Like, isn’t that the next move? I’m like, well, maybe, but maybe it’s

Ryan Isaac: not.

Yeah, it’s

so easy. This reminds me of, the early 2000’s when, cause I’m old, so that’s when I’ll see.

Matt Mulcock: early, like 20 years ago.

Ryan Isaac: And I was like buying a house, and this was also the time when you could still buy houses. It was like, they were still buyable. And, with like no money down and no income stated

on your

Matt Mulcock: stated, literally stated income. How much do I have to make to buy this house? They like slide a post it across the

Ryan Isaac: It was literally

Matt Mulcock: that’s how much I make.

Ryan Isaac: it was literally like what do people make at your

Matt Mulcock: Yeah.

Yeah.

Ryan Isaac: the potential? I’d be like, well, there’s a guy making it They’re like, all right

Matt Mulcock: What is the, what are the top executives make at your company? You seem like a real go getter.

Ryan Isaac: yeah, that’s my, that’s me. Just qualifying the fact that I shouldn’t have been buying one and I didn’t deserve it and I didn’t earn it,

Matt Mulcock: it You’re like I was broke. Yeah,

Ryan Isaac: this reminds me like when I hear this, that’s a lived experience for me going through that housing boom and everyone was doing it in their twenties and everyone could because of that environment, the lending environment.

But it was like, we all chased into homes that none of us could afford or shouldn’t have been in the first place. And then we were all dissatisfied within because we were all going in these neighborhoods that were still new construction. And so there was always a new phase being built every 18

Matt Mulcock: months.

Yep.

Ryan Isaac: And then we were, everyone was dissatisfied every two years. And it felt like you had to upgrade constantly. Like, are you going to the new phase? You go to the new phase. What’s your kitchen backsplash going to be like, what are your floors? It was like you were constantly.

Having to upgrade your housing at all times, even though you didn’t want to, or you couldn’t, or you shouldn’t, it was the same pressure.

Matt Mulcock: that’s even worse with, like, housing is bad enough as it is when you’re in a, non homogenous neighborhood, right? Sounds like what you’re describing are kind of like these PUDs, not track homes,

Ryan Isaac: It was the, it was the Truman show build a million stucco houses

Matt Mulcock: then you’re saying like, which option did you pick

Ryan Isaac: That’s it. No,

Matt Mulcock: Cause there’s only so

Ryan Isaac: you got the three packages. You got gold, silver, bronze, or like, you know, elite or something. And it was literally like that for the 10 years that we lived there. And so I just find this super relatable, but when you do step outside of it, you can maybe see it a little bit when a client’s experiencing that, because how did they come to you?

Was it, they’re like a little anxious about it or they’re feeling like they’re missing out. They’re like trying to hurry it.

Matt Mulcock: Yeah. Kind of varying degrees. Right. You’ve got on one end, it’s just like, what do you think about this?

the ones that are harder to navigate are the ones that are like, Hey, my three friends are doing this. Or I was at, um, A lunch with buddies or I was at this event and they were talking about like, those are the, those are the ones that are harder

Ryan Isaac: feeling the

Matt Mulcock: because they’re feeling pressure.

They’re

Victoria Ferguson: Oh, it’s so

Matt Mulcock: Oh,

Ryan Isaac: so

Victoria Ferguson: I love that

Matt Mulcock: Yep. Well, I love that you said relatable because that’s how I try to approach these situations now I truly don’t like, I could easily get annoyed and be like, Oh my gosh, you guys are such idiots. Like, how dare you? Truly. I’ve fallen prey to this. We’ve all fallen

Ryan Isaac: Yeah Yeah,

Matt Mulcock: you’re just highlighting a story for you.

Ryan Isaac: experience. Yeah

Matt Mulcock: Falling prey to status chasing. We talked about this at the summit, right? And we just did this a webinar on this. It has never been harder to lose focus on like actually building wealth. And it has never been harder to like not look over the proverbial fence at your neighbor because your proverbial fence now is the entire world highlights of the entire world.

as opposed to what it used to be, which is like literally just your reference group was your neighborhood. Now it’s everyone. So we have empathy. Like we all fall prey to this.

Victoria Ferguson: all

don’t blame people. I think it’s part of our culture. Nobody wants to get left behind. And that fear really ignites, you know, behind this.

You could argue in some ways

Matt Mulcock: You could argue in some ways, like the positives of status Like, it’s not like we’re saying status chasing is all negative.

Like, meaning I think a lot of innovation. I think a lot of America has been built for better or for worse. Capitalism and what it’s done for America in regards to the wealth we’ve created has been built. I think a lot off of status chasing like that as a Human race, I think it can drive innovation,

Ryan Isaac: is it fair? You’ve done a Victoria. You’ve done a lot of those values exercises with your money circles and clients and everything and presentations. is it fair to say that status can be a

Victoria Ferguson: value?

Oh, yeah.

Ryan Isaac: okay. Right? Like that’s not like a thing that should be shamed either. status can be a value, right?

Like that’s not like, uh, Oh, you’re bad. If you like status, like that can be a value that’s just important for

Victoria Ferguson: people.

Yes. I a hundred percent agree with this and I don’t think people should feel bad at all.

I think where it gets dangerous is when you’re trading off wealth for

it Or Putting your wealth at risk for the sake of status. There’s a healthy way to have both.

Ryan Isaac: Yeah.

Matt Mulcock: Yeah. I did not think the conversation would go there, but I love that it did. That’s an interesting question. Can status be a worthy value or virtue or priority? I don’t know the answer to that.

I don’t, and I think

Ryan Isaac: think so.

I’m just thinking of like, I’ll take my youngest daughter for example. That girl loves bougie status.

Victoria Ferguson: for everything. She’s a California girl.

Ryan Isaac: like she, she does just her thing. Like she loves brands. She loves like new stuff. She likes the shiny

Victoria Ferguson: stuff, Yeah.

Ryan Isaac: but she works her, she’s like 12. She has like thousands of dollars from babysitting.

Like it

drives her. It’s like a value to her to like have things and feel fancy or whatever it makes her feel. So it drives

Matt Mulcock: her. So, okay. So

Ryan Isaac: the innovation and the

Matt Mulcock: I think that’s the key. I guess

Ryan Isaac: it drive healthy habits? Maybe that’s the

Matt Mulcock: healthy habits? And is there a healthy, are you grounded in it from a healthy

Ryan Isaac: actually do something for you?

Matt Mulcock: Well, and I think there’s a difference in saying she likes fancy things and feeling fancy versus I’m trying to impress other people

I’d have a hard time if someone was like, yeah, my value is impressing others, I’d be like, that’s a problem.

That’s a

Victoria Ferguson: I think status that value actually just stems from the value of competition

Ryan Isaac: Like the human

Matt Mulcock: Yeah, I think that’s a good point.

Victoria Ferguson: instead. Maybe it’s not

Ryan Isaac: is a bad thing. No. We

Victoria Ferguson: compete. Yeah. And I don’t think competition’s a bad thing.

Matt Mulcock: Yeah, I don’t think competition is a bad

thing

Victoria Ferguson: I think it stems from that. And you just wanna be a winner and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Matt Mulcock: Yeah, I would agree with that. I just think I would say of, of all the values we talk about and like in those value cards and we have these conversations. I think it’s really, if someone said to me, I have a value of status, that one would perk me up more than the others in the sense of just saying, I think you have to be the, if it is, if I’ll concede and say, I think it’s, you could say it’s a value and there’s nothing wrong with it, but I would say it’s a dangerous, it could easily become dangerous for you as a person of like, I think leading to a, a.

Empty life really

Victoria Ferguson: Sure, there’s healthy competition and there’s

Matt Mulcock: Totally. And I guess it’s just how you approach it. Cause I guess it’s the same thing you could say with wealth. Like, I think well, so worthy value

Ryan Isaac: I think what

Matt Mulcock: you said is pretty critical. You said at the cost, or like,

what did you

say about

Ryan Isaac: the cost of what, really?

Matt Mulcock: Well, that’s what I was going to say. I think it just comes to, at the cost

Victoria Ferguson: of

your wealth, yeah. The

Matt Mulcock: pursuit of this value is one thing, but the other side of it is, at what

Victoria Ferguson: is, at what cost? Yes. I don’t think

Matt Mulcock: yes, and I don’t think people think about that. It’s almost like, are you getting too lost in that value, which can be anything. I just think status tends to be the one that can get the most out of control.

Ryan Isaac: Yeah,

Victoria Ferguson: Well, I mean like with your daughter, if she’s babysitting and

Ryan Isaac: whatnot,

She’s working

Victoria Ferguson: working her butt off. She’s not in debt. No.

Ryan Isaac: not yet.

Matt Mulcock: not. She’s 12.

Victoria Ferguson: 12.

Ryan Isaac: She might be.

Victoria Ferguson: She is. To her other

Matt Mulcock: going to say it’s gone too far already.

Ryan Isaac: pretty independent. She might have credit

Victoria Ferguson: possible. I doubt it. Oh, is her friends or something?

totally

possible. She’s lending to her friends

Ryan Isaac: might, she would be a hard money

lender.

Victoria Ferguson: Yeah. She’d be tough. Like break kneecaps kind of tough.

Ryan Isaac: Yeah. That’s interesting. Yeah. What is it? What does it cost you? Why is it driving you? And Matt, you have some thoughts here too on like the difference between status and wealth building. Like they’re kind of different games just

Matt Mulcock: completely different. And this is where, again, I come back to this and I’m going to, this is why I love these conversations because we leave and I’m always like thinking for like days afterwards, about this kind of thing.

Like is status a worthy value to have? I really want to think about that. how I think of status versus wealth. I just wrote these down as we were like preparing for this is this is how I define status. I think status is trying to impress others. Like when I think of status, I think it is rooted either in competition, but I think it’s rooted in others.

Like you’re, you’re trying to like outwardly show something to the world, where wealth, As the great Morgan Housel says, wealth is what you can’t see. Wealth is the stuff that, you know, for example, the car you drive is a status symbol or could be, you know, that’s, you’re, you’re showing the world, you know, your status, or you’re trying to seek status with that, but like your.

Balance sheet that you’re not showing anybody, you know, your net worth statement, that’s wealth.

That’s what you don’t see. It’s boring. It’s your investment accounts. now to say like you can use your investments as a status. This is what we’re talking about. People invest based on status chasing because they want to go like they’re driven by an investment simply for the fact that they want to go talk to people about it.

Not because it’s really, you know, Helping their balance sheet. It’s like, I think of like this, when you’re going on a hike and you come to some beautiful place and you can either just be there and enjoy it, or you can start taking a million pictures to show to Instagram, I think that changes the experience drastically for you and the other people you’re

Victoria Ferguson: you’re with.

Would it be fair to say with these private investments, you’re almost, you’re combining wealth building and status chasing? Absolutely. Absolutely. In one and you’re, you’re, you’re trying to mix the two and when you try to

Ryan Isaac: some overlap.

Victoria Ferguson: yeah. It sounds like that’s pretty dangerous. It’s

Matt Mulcock: dangerous. See, and I, but so from my standpoint, I think most people, I shouldn’t say this, I think a lot of times when we see people trying to dive into private investments, alternative investments, I genuinely don’t think they’re thinking about wealth. I think most of the time they are imagining going and talking to someone, their friends, they’re someone being at a party and like feeling really cool.

Like I’m invested in this amazing thing. And I know this because if you look at the data of the stock market, like the stock market’s become like this super boring asset class, but no one’s excited to talk about like their well diversified portfolio and

ETFs that’s wealth that’s chasing wealth or building

Victoria Ferguson: I think people either feel that or they’ll feel really stupid if the investment takes off.

I think that hurts

Ryan Isaac: out part? Like their friends did it and they

Victoria Ferguson: because if their friends do it and it does work out and I said no to it, then I’m going to look like the real idiot. I wonder if, I wonder if they would rather lose the money to be honest. Then be in a position where they didn’t earn it. That feels like if I were in that position and I said, no, that

feels a

Ryan Isaac: feels worse. That feels a lot

Victoria Ferguson: Well, and we see this in studies, right? You know, you don’t want to be the person missing out. Oh,

Matt Mulcock: Oh, I see what you’re saying. So you think, you think, and I think this is true. You think if we have five, so like, let’s say you, you, three of us, you two come to me and you’re like, guy, are you like, Matt, we’re investing in this, whatever.

you come to me and you’re like, we already put in, we already put in all this money. And I’m sitting here being like, Holy cow. Like

Victoria Ferguson: do

this. Yeah, like, we went all

Matt Mulcock: So you’re saying I would feel better jumping in with you. We all lose our money together

and we can like

Victoria Ferguson: connect

But imagine

Ryan Isaac: we

made money and

Victoria Ferguson: we

Matt Mulcock: then you guys go and make a bunch of money and people imagine that when they’re presenting with that option.

It’s

Ryan Isaac: I a hundred percent think that’s true. Like when you think of what’s the, usually the reasoning behind why clients are calling with some different investment, questions, it’s usually being sold to them. Out of that kind of pressure, like the missing out pressure, avoiding taxes in some way or short cutting, boring investments that take too long.

Matt Mulcock: Yep.

Victoria Ferguson: Shortcuts are so

Matt Mulcock: Yeah. Shortcuts

are so

Victoria Ferguson: Shortcuts are.

Ryan Isaac: I think those are the three main reasons I can think of why people end up calling and asking about doing something there. It’s those three things. It’s not usually like, I genuinely feel this is going to be. A good diversified edition of my balance sheet that’s going to grow my wealth.

Now, there are exceptions that we all have in this firm. We have wealthy clients, big balance sheets that do choose to diversify outside of the normal conventional stuff because you know, 10 percent of their wealth is literally seven figures and they, And it’s like legitimate practical things they’re going to do.

They’re just non conventional that

Matt Mulcock: happens.

Oh yeah.

Victoria Ferguson: Because it’s not the cost of all the wealth

Ryan Isaac: They’re not calling and saying, I’m going all in on this thing. I’m, I hate taxes. I’m

trying

to

avoid,

I’m trying to shortcut, like they’ve already made money in practice in real estate and stocks. And so they’re trying to, they’re just diversifying a little bit.

That’s a, that’s a very like logical, rational way to do it. But usually the energy around it is like, Avoid taxes, shortcut, conventional investments, or I just don’t want to miss out.

Matt Mulcock: I mean, I love that you brought this up because we don’t want to get it twisted. Like the private market is a,

it’s a

gigantic market and we’ve, and it’s a worthy asset class.

In fact, it’s growing. Like there’s tons of worthy investments in the private space. And just to back up a little bit, we say this all the time. There’s really only three areas to invest. There’s public markets. There’s private markets, like a dental practice, and then there’s real

Ryan Isaac: estate.

Matt Mulcock: Those are giant umbrellas underneath all those umbrellas

Ryan Isaac: is Subcategories on

Matt Mulcock: Yeah, exactly. Stacks on stacks on stacks.

So what we don’t want to, we’re not sitting here saying the private market is garbage and don’t ever do a private investment. I’ve done private investments, but.

We’re saying, I think what you’re highlighting is like the why

Ryan Isaac: matters, Yeah. The reasoning, the reasoning and like

where does

Victoria Ferguson: it

fit?

Ryan Isaac: your

Matt Mulcock: of due timing, the due diligence.

What is your overall balance sheet look like? Yeah. Life. Where, where are you in your life?

Victoria Ferguson: Yeah.

Ryan Isaac: Your liquidity,

Matt Mulcock: situation, your debt,

Ryan Isaac: to take? What are higher priority?

Matt Mulcock: going on with your

Ryan Isaac: Yeah. The main thing that’s driving your life and has driven your life up to this point, which was like dental school and practice and associateship.

Like, are we going to jeopardize that? In any possible way, because if

Matt Mulcock: the cost? what’s the cost? Yes. Shortcuts

Ryan Isaac: are

Victoria Ferguson: expensive,

Shortcuts are very

Ryan Isaac: deadly expensive.

Matt Mulcock: I want to start kind of taking this a little bit further, like this comparison of status and wealth. I want to get your guys thoughts. Cause again, as, as we were kind of going through this, I’m like, I just kind of writing out thoughts around the two, the differences here, and we’re kind of already, like, Interweaving these themes into this discussion and using examples, which I love, but, uh, I want to get your guys thoughts on this to me.

Status, the huge difference between status and wealth or building wealth is status is a zero sum game

Ryan Isaac: Like,

for me to

Matt Mulcock: up in status, you have to move down. Like

Ryan Isaac: can’t

You have

to be superior

Matt Mulcock: of status. Exactly. You’re exactly, there’s

Ryan Isaac: is built on the premise that there’s a hierarchy.

Matt Mulcock: like exactly right, hierarchical. Exactly. So exactly right.

it’s a zero sum game where wealth is the exact opposite. Like we all can be

wealthy.

Well, and here’s the thing, because status, this other thing was status is defined by others. Status is defined by society. It’s defined by Tik TOK. It’s defined by, let’s be honest, probably Gen Z. Like it’s defined by the younger

generations. No, I’m no, I’m not at all. I’m just saying it’s defined by Like you have no control over that definition,

Ryan Isaac: Yeah. And it’s always changing.

Matt Mulcock: Always changing. It’s like, it’s like fashion. I don’t define what fashion is. Fashion is defined by

Victoria Ferguson: Fashion defines

Ryan Isaac: Fashion defines you. Also something my youngest daughter

Victoria Ferguson: his daughter

Ryan Isaac: hundred

Matt Mulcock: You were so locked and loaded with that you were ready

Ryan Isaac: go. You don’t define fashion, fashion

defines

Victoria Ferguson: defines

Matt Mulcock: I didn’t I was not going there, but I like that

but if you compare that to wealth I define wealth for myself. You define wealth

Ryan Isaac: Yeah. And it’s kind of mathematical.

Matt Mulcock: well, or it’s wealth to me might be making 80 grand a year.

I only spend 60 of it and I can, and I work 20 hours a week and I’m hanging with my family all day. That’s wealth to me. And I live in a shack. Like I don’t care. Like that’s my,

Ryan Isaac: watch. It’s personal. it’s

Matt Mulcock: it’s so personal and defined by you, Which is again, to me, why, to me, status is a never ending game that leads to emptiness almost like for everyone all the time.

Like it’s going to lead that way at some point for someone where wealth is, again, you control it. You

Victoria Ferguson: It’s an internal

Matt Mulcock: in totally

Ryan Isaac: internal.

Mm hmm.

Matt Mulcock: Is that where, what are your thoughts on that?

Victoria Ferguson: No, I love it. I

Matt Mulcock: Tell me where I’m

Ryan Isaac: wrong.

Victoria Ferguson: it’s interesting. I’ve never thought about it that way, but status is absolutely defined by a product and experience something external. I think. Right. You have to see

it.

Matt Mulcock: Yes,

totally. No, no. I’m just saying

Victoria Ferguson: just look really shook by

Matt Mulcock: no, I’m just saying like exactly right, which is why I have a hard time

with my definition of status of saying I have a hard time saying it’s a worthy value because the definition of status is it has to be defined by others. like you could wear.

Victoria Ferguson: It’s perception. Yeah,

It’s external perception,

Matt Mulcock: it’s up to everyone

else.

Victoria Ferguson: like, just kind

Ryan Isaac: like just kind

Victoria Ferguson: of from this, we have full control over that.

Maybe not full, but we control how we perceive wealth. Status is controlled by others

Matt Mulcock: Yes, you don’t have to have anyone else in your life outside of your own little crew

or yourself define what it means to you

Ryan Isaac: to be

wealthy. And

Matt Mulcock: but I can’t say I’ve got status because I just have status. It literally by definition has to be defined by

Ryan Isaac: someone

else. It has to be better than someone. So

if my, if my car is my status, which my next dream car is a Prius. So that’s not really practical in this

Victoria Ferguson: I

Ryan Isaac: a hatchback storage and good gas mileage.

Matt Mulcock: Okay, I’m not gonna quote it here, it’s not appropriate, but I will just say this when I think of a Prius. Go watch the other guys,

Ryan Isaac: Oh,

Matt Mulcock: where he crashes the Prius, and what the cops, what his buddies

Ryan Isaac: that is one of the most underrated buddy comedy shows of all

time. Yeah. But if let’s just hypothetically say that the car was my status, it is only a status. If I have a better car than you, like that has to work that way. I has to be better than someone else publicly around

me

in a showy way. Yeah.

Or wealth is not, I mean, some of our wealthiest clients too are maybe objectively boring balance sheets.

Matt Mulcock: Yeah, I

Ryan Isaac: Pretty boring balance sheets.

Matt Mulcock: of the wealthiest clients I have, you would A, never know it, and they’re the opposite of

Ryan Isaac: You just like ran a really good profitable dental practice for like 20 years and saved a good chunk of that into some pretty consistent things that grew over 20 years.

Like, and they’re very, very wealthy at this point. And now the funny thing is now they can afford to like chase stuff down, even if it is purely for

Victoria Ferguson: entertainment

Matt Mulcock: Sure. Totally because

Ryan Isaac: 5% of their liquid net worth is a decent sum of money and it’s like now you can do it if

Matt Mulcock: want to. Yeah, well, I think there’s a difference when you were just saying that, like now they can go chase something or do something fun.

I still think, like yeah, going and spending frivolously on something or, is, I still don’t think, like, Is necessarily chasing status. I think it all comes down to like, why are you

Ryan Isaac: doing it?

Yeah. That value for them might be novelty or just it’s interesting or they can afford to lose money if they do. And it sounds

Matt Mulcock: fun. Yep.

Ryan Isaac: Yeah, that’s totally,

Matt Mulcock: I think that this is why the, like the verbs we’re using matter here, in my opinion, meaning we talk about chasing status versus building and growing wealth.

That’s really, really important because if you think about the act of chasing that game, literally never ends chasing.

Ryan Isaac: Cause it’s all, again, it’s always changing. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock: but like building and growing wealth, those are two so different, like they’re so different just as far as the actions and like the emotions, those words. evoke to me.

Victoria Ferguson: just seems exhausting. Yes,

Matt Mulcock: Yes.

Victoria Ferguson: exhausting. You know, you have to keep up with things. I don’t know, it just feels like a really exhausting way to

Ryan Isaac: Yeah. Like never

Victoria Ferguson: ends.

Yeah, it doesn’t

Ryan Isaac: And that’s what like wealth on a balance sheet. There’s like this scientific kind of mathematical piece to it that feels very conclusive and like. And definable because if you know for you to have like a happy life, you have to spend X amount of dollars to live in a certain place or do certain things or travel a certain way.

That’s just a, it’s a math equation on how much wealth it’s going to take. So building wealth, it’s very individual. Like you said, it’s kind of private. And it has like a, it has like a limit to it. Like there’s a limit to if I need X amount of dollars to live my dream life, You can achieve that.

It’s like an achievable thing that can actually be like checked off the list and you can move on, you know, it’s

Victoria Ferguson: like

Oh, it’s a lot more attainable. Yeah.

You can’t really with

Ryan Isaac: You can’t, yeah. There’s not like I finally am done permanently with status, but with wealth, you can do that. That’s our whole total term indicator

Matt Mulcock: when it

comes to status, it’s just, I’m done playing the game. Like,

Ryan Isaac: You’re just getting out

Matt Mulcock: you just get out of the game. But if you’re in the game, you, yeah,

Victoria Ferguson: can’t make

Matt Mulcock: there you go,

Ryan Isaac: Everyone’s gonna know when I disappear one day what happened.

Matt Mulcock: They’re gonna know

Ryan Isaac: Central America.

Matt Mulcock: be like Ryan’s for sure

Victoria Ferguson: alive

Ryan Isaac: He’s in Panama running surf lessons for 13 a day.

Matt Mulcock: Yes,

Victoria Ferguson: He brought his cat

Matt Mulcock: he’s in Plymouth now

Ryan Isaac: Yeah, Playa Banal, shout out. Beach Break Surf

Matt Mulcock: it’s the best.

It’s the best of course study buddy comes armed with Some some study or at least some level

Ryan Isaac: of yeah, I like this

Matt Mulcock: I think this the plies very much to what we’re talking about of like the actual psychological effect You What we’re talking about with like, again, we’re going back earlier of saying we understand this.

We have empathy. We all fall prey to this. I don’t think you can live in America in 2024. And not have some aspect

Ryan Isaac: of

nah, we all do. It’s just the human thing. I’m sure it’s all over the world and

Matt Mulcock: Like you’re, if you have two buckets, you got your status bucket, your wealth bucket, everyone’s feeling a little bit up in their

Victoria Ferguson: their status bucket. We’re not saying it’s

Matt Mulcock: bad.

Yeah. But you brought out of something to the notes here, I think it’s really critical to talk about. And you want to, do you want to hit this? I’m

Ryan Isaac: I’m now having the, what’s the pronunciation now of it? No,

Victoria Ferguson: can’t remember

Ryan Isaac: what we decide. Say it. Can I say what I. I have always said Diderot.

Matt Mulcock: Okay. Diderot.

Victoria Ferguson: Diderot.

Ryan Isaac: Deterot.

Ryan Isaac: Introduce us. What is Dennis Dieter? Oh, Victoria.

Victoria Ferguson: I’ll give the definition, um, just to, to level set because I’m new here and just learned about Dennis. So the Detero effect states that obtaining a new possession often creates a spiral of consumption, which leads you to acquire more new things.

As a result, we end up buying things that our previous selves never needed, to feel happy or fulfilled. So, examples.

It hits, I think about, I read that and I just instantly thought of a million examples. You know, I got into skiing. I immediately have to buy a cute ski outfit and a pink helmet and, you know, a balaclava and cute goggles.

You know, you buy a car. Now you need all the stuff for the car. I buy a dress yesterday. I, I need to go buy heels that match the dress,

Ryan Isaac: do. Yeah. These are, you don’t make the rules.

Victoria Ferguson: I don’t make the rules.

And it, I mean, for that, the dress was 50 percent off. So girl math, the

Ryan Isaac: Oh, we’re girl

Matt Mulcock: Don’t hate the player, hate the

Victoria Ferguson: Exactly. So, so no, we all fall prey to this. I mean, I just listed, I was open and vulnerable and

Matt Mulcock: mean, I just

Ryan Isaac: I was just going to say

Matt Mulcock: of them. Oh, no. Yes, and we use It’s probably

Victoria Ferguson: And we

Ryan Isaac: It’s probably the

Matt Mulcock: most

expensive.

Victoria Ferguson: the most

Ryan Isaac: most expensive.

Yeah, the most expensive. And it encompasses everything.

Victoria Ferguson: Right. And people say, well, this is my forever home. I’m going to live in it for 30 years.

Matt Mulcock: Forever Home triggers me as much as passive income does. I don’t want to hear Forever

Home

from anybody, ever. any client who tells me, any person who tells me this is our forever home, I’m like, there’s no possible

Victoria Ferguson: What about the average length is

Matt Mulcock: Seven years.

Ryan Isaac: Oh, is

it really

Matt Mulcock: Yes. I just read about this, it’s like between seven and nine years.

Something in

Victoria Ferguson: 90 or something in that range. About that. I’m probably making that up, but

Matt Mulcock: I’m probably making that up. But it sounds good for this discussion,

Ryan Isaac: Well, that’d be my experience with people too.

Yeah. But houses, I mean, that’s like the, uh, the Detero keeping up with the Joneses effect is probably, the magnitude is the biggest when you move in because then that’s a neighborhood, that’s a culture.

That’s like, what do your kids wear to school? What do you guys drive? Where do you vacation? Like, Oh, we used to camp, but now in this new neighborhood we have to leave the country because that’s just what you do. And yeah, a house has to be the biggest, most influential. cascading effect in the detour effect that makes you start buying and consuming and spending on things that you never would have cared about

ever.

Your backsplash, like how many times do you need to change a backsplash? Yeah.

Matt Mulcock: change your backpack? Yeah.

Ryan Isaac: It’s huge. So here’s what I’m wondering though, Victoria, when you, you gave an example of skiing, there’s gotta be some things where the detour effect applies, but it’s actually just adding to. The experience that you get to use over and over.

. But there’s gotta be, cause I think about that with surfing. I can’t stop buying surfboards. It’s just, you just have to keep doing those things. But there’s gotta be things where it’s equipment, it’s experiential, maybe it’s travel. Versus you move into a house that you shouldn’t have bought that was too much.

And then you start, and you start spending money on clothes and cars and decorations and landscaping and whatever that you never really would have done. And it doesn’t actually add value to your life. New ski gear adds value to your life, but you have to buy a pass

and you got to update the equipment, but like you’re using it over and over again.

There’s probably like a distinction between, I think what wasn’t it? As a result, we end up buying things that we, our previous selves, never needed to feel happy. I think that’s

Victoria Ferguson: probably like

the

Matt Mulcock: Also, sorry, the key here is also obtaining a new possession. So this is referring specifically to things.

Victoria Ferguson: Yes.

Ryan Isaac: So,

Matt Mulcock: I think to your point, with Victoria’s example of skiing, I think there’s a difference in saying this thing helps to enhance an experience.

It’s rooted in this experience I’m having. Versus, like, just, I just want things.

I

Victoria Ferguson: like, just, I just want things.

I

Ryan Isaac: You like being

Victoria Ferguson: outdoors. Yeah, I spend a lot of time up in the mountains and it’s a way for me to live in that

Ryan Isaac: have a way Yeah.

Victoria Ferguson: But if I did that with say, I don’t know, surfing, I don’t have a way to surf in Utah,

Ryan Isaac: And if you kept buying stuff and you’re like, I can’t use this stuff. But you’re

Victoria Ferguson: yeah, like I take one surf lesson and now I’m a surfer girl, you know, and I start buying.

Ryan Isaac: That’s cool though. . I’m surfer girl too.

Matt Mulcock: See, but I don’t, to that, to that point, I don’t think we’re saying, the Diderot Effect is a bad thing.

I think the Diderot Effect is something to be aware

Ryan Isaac: of.

Just happens. It’s

Matt Mulcock: a psychological

Ryan Isaac: impact.

It’s just a neutral thing.

Matt Mulcock: I think it can get out of control. I think houses are the best example. That’s why we keep coming back to this. The two things that gets people every time when it comes to houses, like let’s say you’re building a new house, the two things they never think about, they just need to be aware of, that falls very much in the Diderot Effect, is furniture

and landscaping.

It’s the two things that people never think about.

Ryan Isaac: think about.

Matt Mulcock: And it’s like, we’re talking several hundreds of thousands

Ryan Isaac: dollars. Yeah. Oh,

Matt Mulcock: added on top of your very expensive home. And every time I, I shouldn’t say every time, most of the time I talk to clients who are like, Oh, I’m going to build this new house. I’m always, we’re kind of going through the process, planning it all out, costs and everything loan.

And I’m like, okay, have you factored in furniture and landscaping?

Victoria Ferguson: most

Matt Mulcock: Almost every time there’ll be like, Oh, yeah. Oh, we’ll just worry about that

Ryan Isaac: Yeah, cuz you hope you want to worry about it later

Victoria Ferguson: oh,

Matt Mulcock: promise you that’s going to cost you more than you think. Because of the Diderot effect. That’s

Ryan Isaac: Yeah, that’s got to be the most prime example of what happens could we just become products of our environment And it happens slowly over the time and you don’t, you

don’t notice it. We

do. And we all, we all do it. I like that though. Explaining the Deter effect is just something that happens.

It’s neutral and it can be something that happens that’s improving your life and adding to your values and your experiences that Or things like, cause the definition that you said, it was just things that you would have never needed to feel happy or fulfilled.

But you need, you need outdoor experiences and novelty adventure outdoors to feel happy.

That’s a thing that’s a value for you. So the Deeter effect when you bought ski gear was a positive. So there’s probably positive and negative Deeter effect.

Matt Mulcock: Yeah. Well, this line right here, it says, this is kind of what got me buying things that our previous selves never needed to feel happy or fulfilled. But to that point, I don’t think there’s anything wrong. There isn’t, there is nothing wrong with saying I make more money now than I did 10 years ago.

I’m in a better financial position. So I’m going to intentionally kind of what you’re saying intentionally spend more money. And on the things I enjoy that align with my values, that’s, I think that is positive deed of effect of saying, I’m aware of

Victoria Ferguson: it.

Yep. I’m

Matt Mulcock: I’m still

going to go do it because this brings me a lot of joy.

Yeah. Maybe 10 years ago it wasn’t worth the cost because I couldn’t afford it. Now I can. There’s nothing wrong with that. As long as you’re not sacrificing your bill to the build wealth, your stress levels, you’re living paycheck to paycheck. You know, we see

Ryan Isaac: this.

Yeah,

Matt Mulcock: We see tons of people who make a ton of money who are broke.

Ryan Isaac: Yeah.

Victoria Ferguson: Because

Ryan Isaac: this has gone too far. Yeah, just the cost, like you were saying earlier, the cost and the expense of whatever you’re chasing ends up hurting you. In different ways. And that’s, yeah, that’s bad.

Deidre. Oh, bad.

Victoria Ferguson: it puts you in a position where now you’re forced to either spend less or make more. And then you’re, then you kind of

Ryan Isaac: luck spending

less. Yeah. Good luck spending less.

Victoria Ferguson: so

hard.

and now you’re put into a wedge where now you have to just make more and keep

Ryan Isaac: Yeah. Which is, that’s a whole other podcast probably. But how interesting is that effect when spending less is almost impossible to do once you’re just used to it. And then the pressure to make more, like that can take you from being happy in a career, something that’s fulfilling, All of a sudden, if it’s not enough money for you anymore,

not because it wasn’t enough money, but because you just started spending too much and now it’s not.

And then the pressure, like now I have to squeeze more money out of this career and it can’t do that or it can’t do it fast enough. Then you hate your career and then you’re on hat. Like it’s such a cascading effect that. It’s really sad to see.

Victoria Ferguson: Dennis once wrote, I was an absolute master of my old robe. I have become the slave of the new one. Um, I guess we

Matt Mulcock: I guess we didn’t, do we tell the actual story of Dennis? We didn’t,

a quick backstory on Dennis,

, the whole thing is Dennis, he was a struggling artist for forever, struggling for, for A

Ryan Isaac: long

time.

This is like 1700s, 1800s? Yeah, I

Matt Mulcock: he was like late, late 17th

century.

so Dennis was a struggling artist, like literally broke for most of his life into adulthood. And then, I can’t remember all the details, but he got commissioned by the queen to do something for her. Anyway, he ended up making a pretty big windfall of money and ended up, using that money to buy this super fancy robe.

Ryan Isaac: Oh.

Matt Mulcock: And then from there, as he says in this quote, he became a slave to it because exactly where this effect comes from, we’re talking about he bought the robe and he’s like, Oh, well, these shoes don’t

Ryan Isaac: good. Uh

Matt Mulcock: Oh, my apartment where I live. doesn’t match

Victoria Ferguson: the rope.

Ryan Isaac: Uh

huh You build a whole life around the new stupid

Matt Mulcock: this new rope.

So what she says he became a slave

Ryan Isaac: to it. Yeah

Matt Mulcock: everything ended up being

broke

Victoria Ferguson: went in debt. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock: in debt and was broke all because of this

robe. you

know, so again, the definition of he started chasing that status and he became a slave to it. So that’s where it can become the Dieter effect can Be very

negative

for sure.

Depending on how far it goes.

Ryan Isaac: Yep. Thanks Dennis.

Matt Mulcock: Okay. So I guess to, to kind of wrap this up, I love where this is gone. Like we’re not just even in the realm of, we started with investing, but it’s, we’ve expanded this to like all of life, but I think for like maybe some action items to give people some takeaways, kind of what I was thinking about is just like, if you’re faced with this decision.

Again, kind of bringing it back to where we started investing, right? I have a friend that comes to me or I hear about something at a mastermind or whatever.

I think it’s critical to talk about like some ways to take a step back and ask yourself some questions to think about which lane am I in

right

now?

Chasing

status or my building wealth. So I’m curious from you guys, I think an obvious question

Ryan Isaac: is

just

Matt Mulcock: asking yourself why. Right? What other things come to mind for you guys of questions you’re thinking about if you’re faced with, like, if a dentist is out there, not dentist, dentist, maybe a dentist named Dennis, if, if you’re out there faced with this, what are some questions you guys could think of that they could be armed with?

Can you explain

Victoria Ferguson: why, what’s the motivation, how did you hear about this, how do you understand it? I always want to make sure they can explain it to me, because if they can’t, then that’s just a really, really clear red flag to me.

Ryan Isaac: Yeah,

Matt Mulcock: And you can’t explain it in like 30 seconds.

Ryan Isaac: Yeah.

Do you know what’s going on? And we’ve all been in this position where we’re like excited about something and someone challenges us a little bit. It is like you get a little defensive and they’re like, well, what is that? And you’re like, I just is okay. It just is.

I’m just going to do

it. It’s awesome. Just trust me. It’s

Matt Mulcock: the, that’s probably the ultimate red flag of like, this is status chasing. Like, just, just,

Ryan Isaac: Just stop asking.

Matt Mulcock: Just stop asking

Victoria Ferguson: questions.

They guaranteed returns.

Ryan Isaac: Cause you don’t, yeah, they don’t know. I love that Victoria. That’s really good. I think, for sure. What, like how did you, how did you find this in the first place? Where were you when this came up?

Matt Mulcock: What emotions did

Ryan Isaac: were you feeling about this? And like what, what place, what void does this feel that it’s currently not being filled right now in your life or your balance sheet or your business or whatever it is. And like, and explain

Victoria Ferguson: it

to

me.

Ryan Isaac: Yeah. Yeah. But it is shocking sometimes. The dollar amounts of things people want to get into, like huge dollar amounts, and it can’t be explained back to you simply.

Victoria Ferguson: It’s Wild.

Yeah,

Ryan Isaac: It is, it’s really, it’s

Matt Mulcock: of the stock market.

Ryan Isaac: human psychology around money is like, so, so fascinating. But how, that is, that is so common, like, this is a multiple six figure thing. But I can’t really explain what’s actually going on and how it’s going to play out like 30 days from now, let alone five or 10 years from now.

Matt Mulcock: Which is

Ryan Isaac: It’s very

Matt Mulcock: think another good question to ask if you’re faced with this is to step back and say, Is success with this investment repeatable?

Can I repeat this? Cause if not, if the answer to that is no, and be honest with yourself, like, let’s say you put money into this thing and it blows up. Is it repeatable? Cause if it’s not, that’s pure luck. And as our boy, Daniel Crosby says, I love what he says in one of, I think it’s laws of wealth. He says, you can be right and still be a moron.

Victoria Ferguson: Ooh,

I love

Matt Mulcock: so you don’t, don’t think that success in one thing. That you did ten years, five years ago, or you put money into this thing and it actually went 10x You can be right and you still might be a moron. That was still a really bad

Ryan Isaac: I actually think one of the biggest

Matt Mulcock: think one of the biggest Risks with investing is especially like day trading or doing stuff like this is being right early. I think people that are right early,

Victoria Ferguson: Builds the wrong

Matt Mulcock: yes, all of a sudden they start to conflate. I was successful in this. I had some winners early so that you start to think.

you mix up luck and skill.

Victoria Ferguson: False

Ryan Isaac: confidence.

False

Matt Mulcock: confidence. And I think that’s a super dangerous thing to carry into. Like, I’d much rather have someone, which most people do when they get into investing is like have a lot of failures early on with a lot, a little bit, a little amount of money that’s like lower risk.

And it’s like, you learn those lessons. You’ve paid that

Ryan Isaac: in business

Matt Mulcock: in business or whatever it

Victoria Ferguson: Yeah. Like, you have to taste the vanilla extract yourself.

Matt Mulcock: Yes.

Ryan Isaac: what recipe are you thinking

Matt Mulcock: Oh, she just tried it

Ryan Isaac: Oh, you have to try vanilla

Victoria Ferguson: You know how vanilla extract smells so amazing

and then kids are like, I just,

please, like, I want it. You have to taste the vanilla extract yourself to realize

it’s, it’s. It’s not that sweet, like, fragrant

Ryan Isaac: Well, it builds a little healthy fear it builds a little

Victoria Ferguson: Yeah, and then you won’t do that again.

Ryan Isaac: huh. I would also I like going through the exercise of asking clients like what happens if this totally

blows up like

if you lose all this money or you get sued from it or the IRS comes after you because of, you know, this is like shady, like you know you’re going to get audited over this.

If they do like, then what,

you

know?

I like to know. Try to walk through that scenario. But I do find that when you do that, I think this is human nature too. There’s so much defense against like now there’s going to go find that it’s hard to even put yourself in that mentality. Give a lot of props to people who can do that and be like, Oh yeah, maybe this whole thing will blow up and I could get sued or, you know, get in trouble from the

Matt Mulcock: or, or just something as simple as what if I lose all my

Ryan Isaac: money?

Matt Mulcock: I

wrote one here. What if I’m

Ryan Isaac: wrong?

Yeah. Okay. What if

Matt Mulcock: And this goes against me. And I put in like, evaluate how much money you’re putting in.

And imagine if you’re going into one investment, true risk is the permanent loss of capital. And if you’re putting it all into one thing, you got to go into that being like, I could lose all of this. So if you’re putting a hundred thousand dollars into something and you’re only your net worth is only 200, 000.

Like, think about the effect of

that.

Ryan Isaac: There’s some psychological thing going on. We need, we need the craws to come on the show.

Matt Mulcock: Bring him back

Ryan Isaac: Let’s just like patch him in right

Matt Mulcock: now.

Yeah, let me just call him

Victoria Ferguson: call them real quick. There

Ryan Isaac: There is like something going on though.

Cause in my experience of like, pushing on people with that and when people have pushed on me for those questions, it’s almost like, I don’t care. Like what happens if you lose this 100, 000 and you have 200, 000 total? It almost seems like the responses are like kind of nonchalant. Like, oh, that’s fine.

It’s wild. Does, does it, is that

It’s wild.

Is that common for you

well then it’s just what happens and I’m like,

Matt Mulcock: But

it’s almost like they’ve got this,

They’ve got this way. I think there’s a like psychological term for this called like empathy gap.

It’s like you don’t understand the actual pain you’re going to be

Ryan Isaac: feeling. Right. You just can’t see it. Like you can’t

imagine it or you don’t believe it’s going to happen because why would you believe something bad is going to happen to the thing, the thing you’re choosing, you’re not going to believe that it could. Overconfidence bias, 100%. ,

Matt Mulcock: But I do think what’s so funny about that and kind of ironic is that studies do show, that you feel the, we feel the pain of loss twice as much

as the

joy

we

get

Ryan Isaac: from pain.

Yeah. Which is

Matt Mulcock: It’s like

Ryan Isaac: It’s totally ironic.

Matt Mulcock: which is so funny. Cause it’s like, I know factually based on data that you’re going to actually feel this way worse. It is 2x the pain you’re going to feel if you lose all that

versus

if you were to double

Ryan Isaac: your

money

But there’s something that just prevents us from believing that it could

Matt Mulcock: because they’re I think they actually don’t believe it will

Ryan Isaac: Yeah, also having teenagers right now I can see why this is just in part of human psychology They just don’t believe anything bad will ever happen.

I’ll be like, why are you jumping off that cliff without testing the water depth? Shut up, dad

Victoria Ferguson: Look,

Ryan Isaac: Okay.

Yeah, it’s just three in the morning. You’re in the mountains and jump go ahead.

Totally. Nothing could ever go wrong What could go wrong? What could possibly go wrong?

Deer. Yeah, Nothing. Damn. Jeez.

Matt Mulcock: Hey dad, it’s a Brat Girls Summer, leave me alone.

Okay? Leave me alone.

Ryan Isaac: Let’s go. So yeah, it’s definitely an overconfidence bias. We just don’t believe that the things we’re going to choose can go wrong. We don’t

want to believe that. And We all do that. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock: Cause we’re too enamored with what

our

life would look like and how good we’d feel if

we got it right. Guys, this was a lot . Any final thoughts? Victoria, any final thoughts?

Victoria Ferguson: I think

Matt Mulcock: Words of wisdom.

Victoria Ferguson: Words of wisdom.

Oh, I don’t know about that. But I think awareness is really huge. And I, this was a really big theme for, for our summit, just getting grounded in your why. And I’ve been saying this a lot, I feel like, but I know it sounds woo woo, but But it will save you, I’m convinced it’ll save you the most amount of money if you know your purpose and you have your why and you can be introspective, that’s going to be the most money saving thing you could ever do.

because I think if you’re not grounded in that, then you turn to pleasures and shortcuts to get that. I don’t know, dopamine hit almost or satisfaction or validation. So I think honestly the best thing you can do for your wealth other than growing it the ways that we talk about is being introspective, practicing gratitude, grounding in your why.

it’ll have compounding

Ryan Isaac: in your why.

Victoria Ferguson: say have someone

Matt Mulcock: motivation. Of course. Go

ahead. Go ahead. We’ve been working together too

Ryan Isaac: Have someone you trust their opinion. you trust them and you trust their motivation, you know, their motivations behind why they would give you advice. and then like bounce ideas off people that you trust. I think that’s like, that’ll save

Matt Mulcock: you a lot.

, I echo those points, both of you. I think those are great. I would say like the number one, probably the number one thing to focus on when it comes to being successful with investing or anything we’re talking about here is humility.

I think what you’re saying, I think it

Ryan Isaac: humility. You had to go ask

Matt Mulcock: you know what? I need to be

Ryan Isaac: on this. Be

Matt Mulcock: I

know I

know I might be wrong on this. be humble enough to be challenged and to go to someone, whether it’s a friend and whether it’s an advisor, CPA. Maybe it’s your spouse, someone that you trust to say, challenge me on this, like, tell me, tell me why I might be wrong.

And the last thing on this, I’ll say too, kind of in that vein, let’s say you’re going to someone, you’re going to that advisor, or you’re going to that person to challenge you, tell them what you’re wanting out of that conversation. So meaning, like when clients come to us, A lot of times I’ll say, Hey, what role do you want me to play for you in this discussion?

Like, are you actually wanting

Ryan Isaac: me to

challenge

Do you want me to just listen.

Want, just listen.

Matt Mulcock: listen

and empathize? Maybe you already made

Ryan Isaac: your

mind

up.

Such a good question. I like that.

Matt Mulcock: be humble. Think like, think to yourself, am I actually wanting to be challenged? And if I am, I need to tell that person, I need you to poke holes in

this. I think that’s going to save you, to your point, tons of money and heartache and stress, on your, hopefully on the road to building wealth.

guys, this was awesome. if. We’ve, stopped kind of, we talked summit forever. Now we’re talking about, uh, if you want to talk to us, if you want to have more conversations about this. We’d love to talk to you.

Ryan Isaac: We’d

love to

get in our calendar, get

Matt Mulcock: on our calendars, dentistadvisors.com. It is now a yellow button.

We

Ryan Isaac: yellow. It’s green, but yellow has been

Matt Mulcock: It’s yellow upgrade. new, what do you always say? New level unlocked or something?

Victoria Ferguson: character.

unlocked. New color

Matt Mulcock: New color unlocked, uh, click on the yellow button. We literally, we honestly, we’d love to talk to you, hear your stories, point you in the right direction.

Thanks everyone for listening. Thanks everybody. Bye bye.

 

Keywords: status, wealth, perception, hierarchy, investments

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Behavioral Finance, Finance 101, Getting Organized