5 Tax Write-offs Every Dentist Should Know – Episode #462

As a small business owner, the cost of operating your practice is huge. And reducing your tax bill is often top of mind. Every dentist should understand how to use tax deferrals and tax deductions to keep their taxes as low as possible. On this Dentist Money Show, Ryan and Matt look at several tax strategies dentists can use that will help them keep more of their hard-earned money.

Show Notes
5 Tax Write-offs Every Dentist Should Know About
2023 Year-End Financial Planning Checklist for Dentists

 

 

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Podcast Transcript

Ryan Isaac:
Heyo, everybody! Welcome back to another episode of The Dentist Money Show, brought to you by Dentist Advisors, a no-commission fiduciary, comprehensive, fee-only financial advisor just for dentists. Only for dentists. And the whole country, dentistadvisors.com. Today on the show, Matt and I are taking a comment that a Facebooker left on one of our recent videos about 401ks. And it wasn’t the nicest comment, wasn’t the meanest by any shot, but it actually was a good introduction and a good discussion and a good question to pose that we had on the show today.

Ryan Isaac:
So today’s show is about tax deductions, 401ks, what’s in your control, why do dentists put money into pre-tax accounts now and save taxes up now and pay taxes later? Why do we do these things? Why is that helpful? Why is that smart? We break all these things down and a few other things along the way. So, thanks to Matt for being here as always, and thanks to all of you for joining us. If you have any questions, you can just easily go to dentistadvisors.com, you can chat with any of our advisors anytime, click the Book Free Consultation link. We love having a talk with all of you anytime and pointing you in the right direction and again, thanks for being here. Enjoy the show.

Announcer:
Consultant advisor conduct your own due diligence when making financial decision. General principles discussed during this program do not constitute personal advice. This program is furnished by dentist advisors or registered investment advisor. This is Dentist Money. Now, here’s your host, Ryan Isaac.

Ryan Isaac:
We’re going to talk about investing and taxes and 401k and compensation and deferring taxes or paying taxes now.

Matt Mulcock:
Hello. Hello. Hello.

Ryan Isaac:
Like, that’s the topic for today, that’s where we’re going?

Matt Mulcock:
It’s a lot, yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
That’s the basic…

Matt Mulcock:
When you put it that way, when you put it that way.

Ryan Isaac:
That’s the seriousness of it all.

Matt Mulcock:
Yes, yes.

Ryan Isaac:
You felt that deep in your bones?

Matt Mulcock:
I did.

Ryan Isaac:
We’re gonna start this by doing something I don’t think we’ve ever done before. Have we done this before? Has this ever happened before?

Matt Mulcock:
I don’t know. Not to this level. I don’t know. We’ve done reaction type stuff to comments.

Ryan Isaac:
Yes. We’ve used comments as questions, we’ve used like, DMs and direct questions just like, topical.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, we’re just doing the same thing.

Ryan Isaac:
Yes. But I don’t think we’ve ever taken a negative mean comment.

[chuckle]

Matt Mulcock:
We’ve never done our mean tweets, this is like, you know the thing, read your mean tweets.

Ryan Isaac:
Reading mean tweets, okay.

Matt Mulcock:
This is the hilarious dude, I love this.

Ryan Isaac:
So for some context, we had recorded a… I think this came from a podcast about a 401k, I think I did it with Keira Dent [0:02:35.5] ____.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, like, back in September.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, it was a while ago. And I think we just ran an ad or a clip on it and ran on Facebook and as Facebook does, it attracted some attention.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, of course, ’cause we’re influencers.

Ryan Isaac:
Which is the point of marketing.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. How dare you?

Ryan Isaac:
So first of all I’m going to ask you, Matt, do you read comments or what…

Matt Mulcock:
Never.

Ryan Isaac:
I mean, it’s not like we get tons and tons and tons of comments on things that we post, but do you ever read them?

Matt Mulcock:
I shouldn’t say never, that’s not true.

Ryan Isaac:
Well, do you scan… Like, when you see something off base or crazy or mean or something, do you give it much attention or do you just scan for, if it’s a good question from an actual dentist or client or something?

Matt Mulcock:
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I genuinely don’t scan for negativity or negative stuff. I’ll scan for yeah, like you said, questions that come in or… For example, we posted a video recently with Keira Dent, shout-out Kira, Dental A Team, they’re fantastic. And I was kind of rousing her on based on… We went to Napa together, she was there with us, right? And I was like, joking around with her about KFC, Keira, you know what I’m talking about?

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. A little inside joke.

Matt Mulcock:
Like, something that’s fun, you’re like looking for comments back and forth or whatever, just having fun. But I’m not scanning for negative comments. Never.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. We’ve received negative comments over the years. It’s not like we have not. I remember…

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. You can’t please everybody.

Ryan Isaac:
No, I remember when this podcast started eight… I mean, whenever. Eight years ago?

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Was it eight? What year was that, 2016, ’17? Anyway, and I remember the nature of some of the early comments, specifically that reason I used the word dude too much.

Matt Mulcock:
Dude, too much.

Ryan Isaac:
Really, and we are too casual. And I remember we did read some of those. But anyway, we have a negative comment, we’re going to read. And here’s why we’re reading this, because I felt like this comment is brought to our attention by someone on our team. Like you just said, it’s not something I go through either. But it was brought to our attention and I thought, well, this was a mean way to ask a good question. [laughter] That’s what I thought.

Matt Mulcock:
That’s a good way to put it.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, I’m gonna give a little context too. I was a little disappointed, because I was kind of hoping at the very least that John would have been a dentist.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, he’s not.

Ryan Isaac:
eah, so there’d be some context behind why he’s watching a dental podcast and 401k advice for dentists. So I was like, oh, hopefully he’s a dentist or in the dental profession.

Matt Mulcock:
I knew exactly what he was, the second I read the comments. So we’ll reveal, we’re gonna do a reveal of what John is.

Ryan Isaac:
And then I was like, do you know… And then I was like, I’ll help you…

Matt Mulcock:
100% I know.

Ryan Isaac:
You do?

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Is it life insurance?

Matt Mulcock:
Yes. Like, Of course.

Ryan Isaac:
It is? Okay.

Matt Mulcock:
Yes. I read the comment. I was like, this dude sells insurance.

Ryan Isaac:
Okay. Well, this just sums up the whole episode right now. And here’s a mean way to ask a good question. Okay? So this was a comment from a guy named John on one of our 401k podcast. And John said, increase wages and utilize an executive comp strategy, which allows you to lower taxes now and then never pay them in the future. That’s something to unpack right there. That’s my commentary.

Matt Mulcock:
Of course, John.

Ryan Isaac:
He says, he goes on to say a 401k strategy simply means you will lower your taxes today, yes. But also actually pay gross more in taxes, assuming your account grows, which is not a guarantee, some things we’ll unpack there as well. It’s amazing we can do… This is… Okay. Here’s my favourite part.

Matt Mulcock:
This is the best part. This is the best part.

Ryan Isaac:
This is the best part. And there’s one thing that he said is not correct in this part. He says, it’s amazing we continue to listen to fools with headsets and boom mics who know nothing more than the boiler plate strategies. The wrong thing that’s just not correct here.

Matt Mulcock:
I have some quarrels with that comment.

Ryan Isaac:
You have some quarrels. So fools with headsets and boom mics. The thing that’s incorrect here is these are not boom mics.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
So I feel like, that is worth explaining. This is a handheld normal run of the mill podcasting mic. You’re holding one too. There is no boom involved in these microphone setups. Let’s digress and back up a little bit here. You said he sells insurance, so that kind of explains the angle, what we’re coming at here. And what I thought would be interesting… Again, I think this brings, this is a not nice way to bring up a good question. [laughter] And a good… And actually, first of all, Matt, have you ever just gone out of your way to comment on social media and just tell someone they’re like a fool and just know what it is?

Matt Mulcock:
No.

Ryan Isaac:
Have you ever done that before?

Matt Mulcock:
No. I mean…

Ryan Isaac:
Unless it’s a friend and you’re razzing them?

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, talking crap to a friend or something.

Ryan Isaac:
Never done that before.

Matt Mulcock:
No. And I mean, again, that’s the most accurate part of his whole statement. I’ll give him credit. He’s calling us fools and…

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Fools.

Matt Mulcock:
You know, why do we keep listening to these fools? I ask myself that every day. Why does anyone listen to us? I don’t know.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Again, eight years. I don’t know.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Okay. So…

Matt Mulcock:
Maybe John can tell us.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, I don’t think the comment is there, because I would… I was going to go back and just post a link to the podcast. But let’s talk… Let’s jump into this, because it’s end of year. We’re recording this. Amazingly it’s December, somehow of 2023.

Matt Mulcock:
Unbelievable, yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
I’m kinda glad we’ve talked about this offline. I’m glad the year…

Matt Mulcock:
It’s been a tough year.

Ryan Isaac:
It’s been one of those years you just want to be done, and just hope by some magical something that January…

Matt Mulcock:
2024 is better.

Ryan Isaac:
First rolls around it, and it just somehow gets magical.

Matt Mulcock:
That’s how it happens, usually.

Ryan Isaac:
At the calendar event of January 1. But end of year, taxes are a big thing. Tax strategy is a big question. And so, I thought we could use this as like a jumping off point of maybe… Because dentists do wonder like, why would I defer taxes now and try to pay them later with a 401k? So I wanted to tackle that. You got us a list here. For the last handful of years, we’ve been interviewing CPAs at the end of every year and having them give us… And dental-specific ones, having them give us a rundown or what are common tax strategies, deduction type strategies that dentists can utilize? You have that list. I think it’s available on our website too, so you can shout that out too. So I want to talk about that. Like, why do you wanna see that list. And then actually, we kind of want to circle back on a couple of his comments about other strategies that he’s mentioning here, which of course just means, buy life insurance and some complex life insurance plan.

Matt Mulcock:
Don’t listen to fools with boilerplate strategies, freaking idiots.

Ryan Isaac:
Sorry for the boilerplate. So we’ve got a little bit of boilerplate here for you, but I hate to break it to you. Boilerplate’s working for millions and millions of people for decades and decades.

Matt Mulcock:
I’m Sorry about that.

Ryan Isaac:
So let’s start with Matt, when a dentist asks you, like, when they’re setting up a 401k, why would I want to defer income and taxes right now? Let’s say it’s mid-career dentist, high earning dentist, only to pay it later when I might be wealthier, I’ll have more… Or when people will say, oh, tax rates might be even higher in the future. They always go up, you know?

Matt Mulcock:
Yep.

Ryan Isaac:
How do you like… What kind of conversation do you have when people ask that, when dentists ask you that?

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, I think the first thing to talk about under breakdown is, when you talk about deductions, this is something that a lot of people don’t often think about. But the truth is, anytime you take a tax deduction, it is a net negative to your current self, right? A deduction is always net negative. It always means you spent more money than what you saved in taxes. So take the 179 deduction or any deduction you want, right? You go buy a piece of equipment, you spent more in that piece of equipment than what you were able to deduct on taxes. So that seems kinda like, oh, yeah, duh, but sometimes people don’t often think about that. This is why we say like, don’t just rush off and buy a piece of equipment just because you’re going to save some money on taxes, ’cause it’s in net negative.

Matt Mulcock:
So that context, when we talk about with a 401k, however, or retirement plan, let’s just say, retirement plans in general. That is one of the few along with like something like an HSA, one of the few deductions that you take on your current… It’s still in net negative to your current self, but you get to keep the money. So that to us is why doing something like a retirement plan, it’s one of the most proactive ways that you can reduce taxes in your most likely your highest income earning years and still keep the money for your future self. You don’t always get to do that. That’s the first thing that I would talk about to give them some context around that.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, that’s a really good point, actually. I don’t think I’ve… I’ve never thought about all the other things you get a tax deduction for being in net negative to you. But it’s like, yeah, you’re spending money. It’s like, buying stuff on sale. Like, woah! You still bought it.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. Or you’re taking a loss on your investments, net negative to you. Like, you get to deduct that or whatever, but it’s still a net negative. And then the other part of this was when people… This is what we hear a lot. Weird, it always comes from insurance people or people that just kind of misunderstand. So the whole comment around… We get this a lot. Well, isn’t my lifestyle going to be the same in retirement or aren’t tax rates going to go up? Like, these what if scenarios, right? The bottom line is, we have no idea what’s going to happen to tax rates, and anyone that’s trying to tell you, they do know, again, they’re trying to sell you something. They’re trying to sell you a product of some kind. What we do know is that most likely, if you are a dentist in your mid to late career, the times that you’re going to be probably thinking about a 401k or retirement plan, your income, your actual income on paper is probably the highest it will ever be. It will not be this high in retirement. Your lifestyle will be the same, but that’s very, very different than saying your income on paper is the same. Very different.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, I think that’s the kicker. There’s no way to know tax rates, tax systems, who knows at that point, but it’s highly likely for most dentists that let’s just put some numbers to it. Let’s say you make $500, but you spend $200 a year. Well, right now, when you make $500, you have to pay taxes on $500, ’cause that’s your earned income. That’s how dentist income is derived. In the future, in retirement, when you pull out, only what you need to spend, the $200, which will probably remain close to the same, that’s just not the same amount of income that you’re paying taxes on. So, tax rates as a percentage or rates or the scale of the progressive system could even… It could be higher and you could still pay less in taxes just because the amount of income that you’re taking in retirement, well, it’s highly likely for most people, it’s going to be lower than it is today.

Ryan Isaac:
The other part of this too is, people don’t… I don’t think people realize the various places where their money’s going to come from in the future. Let’s just say an average dentist retires, they sell a practice. They’ve got a home. Let’s say they’ve got a building and a brokerage account and a 401k account. The practice sale is already taxed, like, it’s taxed in the year in the event that it happens. So it’s already after tax, like, that’s not income tax. It could be invested and then you’d pay some capital gains on the growth, but that’s already been taxed, a big chunk of their net worth.

Matt Mulcock:
Not if you listen to John, my boy.

Ryan Isaac:
John’s got some problems with the statement.

Matt Mulcock:
There’s ways that you never pay taxes. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
If they have a building and they keep that building and they get rental income, that’s income, so that would be a taxed earned income rate. Or they might, like a lot of dentists, they end up selling their buildings anyway. You’d pay tax on the capital gains of the building and then you’d have after tax cash. 401k limits are so low compared to most dentist savings ability that most of their wealth is not gonna be sitting in a taxable 401k account in the future. That’s just kind of the reality of it too, which I don’t think people outside, like this person making the comment, probably don’t realize about dentists is that they save a lot of money outside of these clients anyway. So, only a small chunk is gonna be sitting in taxable accounts that they don’t even have to be taken until this point, your mid-70s, right?

Matt Mulcock:
Yep.

Ryan Isaac:
Everything else is gonna be like, brokerage account money, practice sale money, either rental income or building sale money. Real estate sale money. So what I’m getting at is, when you pull out your spending money in the future, that’s all you’re gonna be taxed on. And for most dentists, in a lot of scenarios, a good chunk of that money is already after tax money with just capital gains taxes attached to it. So yeah, that’s like the biggest one. People are like, why should I do this? It’s kind of that bet that what we’ll be paying… Income will be… What we’re paying tax on today is gonna be higher than what we’ll be paying tax on in the future. And the way, I mean, where it comes from is totally different too.

Matt Mulcock:
Well… And that’s a great point. And by the way, all these money decisions, everything that we’re doing here, I like that you just used the word bet, ’cause in a lot of ways, that’s what this comes down to, right? All these decisions come down to probability of success. Again, anyone that is sitting there telling you, this is black and white, or this is right and this one’s wrong, it’s just not true. Like, the whole idea here is probability of success. What gives me the highest likelihood of success? This is the whole reason why you invest, right? That’s the whole thing, is you’re playing the odds. You’re making a bet that investing in stocks is going to give you a higher likelihood of success over the next 20, 30, 40 years than just sitting in cash. That bet has paid off for millions and millions of people.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
It’s the same thing with this. You’re making a bet by being proactive with your tax savings, by putting money in a tax deductible vehicle in your highest income-earning years, betting that your income on paper will be much lower. The other thing that you said, Ryan, that I think needs to be pointed out too is, you said that… You mentioned RMDH, right? So this money will go in here and most likely not be touched until you have to take it out, right? But in an ideal scenario even, an ideal scenario for a dentist, and we’ve seen this play out, we play this out with clients all the time, is you put the money in, you take the deduction at your highest income earning years, both at the federal and the state level. So for some people. Like clients in California, this is literally like close to 50% tax savings.

Ryan Isaac:
Yep.

Matt Mulcock:
Right? And then when you get to retirement, let’s say you’re in the first several years of retirement, again, income goes way down on paper, you start converting that to a Roth IRA at much lower tax rates. And then ideally, the most ideal scenario is, you get to RMDH, and you actually have no money…

Ryan Isaac:
You’ve converted it all.

Matt Mulcock:
Into the tax vehicles anymore. It’s all in Roth. It’s all in brokerage, and you are sitting pretty, like, my boy, John says, you don’t have to pay any taxes, maybe. [laughter] Who knows?

Ryan Isaac:
I love these like, guaranteed rate of return, high rate of return, safe rate of return, no tax scenarios that exist out there.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. Sorry. That we’re just spreading the good word of boilerplate strategies and we’re keeping all the good ones to ourselves. All the ones where you never pay taxes.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. The other thing that you talked about, and we discuss this a lot, is there’s a finite amount of deductions you can proactively take as a dentist being that your income is earned income. You’re not a hedge fund manager, you’re not dealing exclusively in real estate. You know, people who have different… Like, those are two areas who have different tax laws, you know?

Matt Mulcock:
Yep.

Ryan Isaac:
So you have earned income, it’s just gonna be taxed earned income levels. And there’s a finite list. There is a good list of things you can do. It makes a multiple six figure difference over a career. No question, if you do these things. And I thought we could list a few of these and then you could tell where… I think it’s on our website, our end of year checklist website. Is it on there?

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Okay.

Matt Mulcock:
Well, so let me ask you this, Ryan, ’cause so we have two different things. We have our year end checklist, it’s like a year-end planning checklist from a tax perspective. And then we have… We just did a webinar on this. We have an article on this, the five deductions that every dentist should consider. There’s kind of… They’re kind of crossover. Is that what you were thinking?

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Let’s do that one. Yeah. Let’s do that one. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
Okay.

Ryan Isaac:
And I’ll just start by saying on this list, outside of any large purchases where you get a huge one time, like, 179 or big depreciation expense, which is not planning, that’s just an event and you get a tax deduction. Outside of those things, your retirement plan, whether it’s a simple IRA, a 401k, profit sharing, cash balance plan, pension plan, that is the highest, the biggest deduction that you’re probably gonna be able to do proactively every single year of your career and have control over. There’s a lot of other things enlisted that are usually smaller than those. But I mean, that’s why we discuss this so often, so.

Matt Mulcock:
Yep.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
It’s so true. I like that you said that the taking the 179 deduction is not tax planning. That’s just…

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. That’s just an event. It’s not a strategy.

Matt Mulcock:
An even that happened. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. So the five, how did you title these?

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, so we did this… So this is an article on our website. We also did a webinar on this. It’s part of our year-end checklist. If you go to dentistadvisors.com/2023, this is an article that one of our advisors shout-out, Victoria, you’ve heard her on the show a lot more recently on our social media. She’s a writing machine, by the way.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Crank them out.

Matt Mulcock:
She’s cranking out tons of articles. So this article is titled Five Tax Write-Offs Every Dentist Should Know About.

Ryan Isaac:
Okay.

Matt Mulcock:
You’re like that, it’s really like Buzz Feed, kind of like…

Ryan Isaac:
We’re clicking that.

Matt Mulcock:
You can’t wait for number three, you know? That kinda thing.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Wait till you see number three.

Matt Mulcock:
Wait till you see number three.

Ryan Isaac:
You won’t believe number three. That’s…

Matt Mulcock:
But seriously number three is a good one. So…

Ryan Isaac:
Okay. [laughter] As it so… As it happens, number three is killer.

Matt Mulcock:
Number three is killer.

Ryan Isaac:
All right.

Matt Mulcock:
So do you want to just go through these?

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, yeah. I think this will be important.

Matt Mulcock:
So you know what? You know what I’m going to do for you, Ryan? Because we’re on a new software here. I’m gonna share my screen.

Ryan Isaac:
Share the screen, ’cause the video will be going live somewhere.

Matt Mulcock:
Here we go. So we’re going to have video. Do you see that?

Ryan Isaac:
There it is.

Matt Mulcock:
Right?

Ryan Isaac:
There it is. Five Tax Write-Offs Every Dentist Should Know About.

Matt Mulcock:
So look for the video, ’cause we’re going to be posting this stuff. We’re getting active on social, on Insta.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Yes.

Matt Mulcock:
Okay. Five tax write-offs every dentist should know about. Number one. And this is, again, not an exhaustive list. We just think these are five high-quality deductions that you should be considering. High quality? I don’t know why I said that. All right. High quality. It’s so stupid.

Ryan Isaac:
Wait, wait, wait… Precious?

Matt Mulcock:
Precious. These are five precious write-offs to think about. All right. Number one. Kids on payroll.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
So this is one I think a lot of, if not all, dentists hear something about or have heard something about. And probably all of these, to be honest. But this is a great one to consider, right, if you’ve got kids. And all of these, by the way, come with this idea of talk to your CPA.

Ryan Isaac:
Yes, please.

Matt Mulcock:
Make sure it fits for your situation. But the idea here is, you put your kids on payroll. You pay them up to the standard deduction. So for 2023, that’s $13,850. For 2024, that goes up to $14,000 or over $14,000. You can put them on payroll, pay them that amount. And you don’t even have to file a tax return for them. So the money you pay them is completely tax-free. You’re basically taking those dollars from your highest tax bracket. And the family gets to keep that money. It’s family income. But it’s now being moved to 0% tax bracket. So this is a great way to do it. And save for them, ’cause you can put that money in vehicles.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, in their own accounts.

Matt Mulcock:
Yep.

Ryan Isaac:
I was gonna say, this is especially helpful for those that are going to be saving money for their kids anyway. I’ve had not a few, I’ve had a lot of conversations recently. And I’ll just say, like, with some pretty conservative CPAs by nature who are big fans of this, people always ask, like, well, CPA, let me do this. Like, I’ve seen almost every CPA be okay with this. Even little kids on payroll, there’s ways that you can document it and make sure that you would pass an audit. In 15 years of doing this job, I haven’t seen someone get an audit triggered by a child on payroll. I’ve never seen that. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. I’m sure a CPA has seen it.

Ryan Isaac:
But I’ve seen or I’ve talked to quite a few CPAs lately who have even said, hey, under certain circumstances, you just said it too, Matt, it’s family money. You run this money through payroll for the kids. But you technically, legally, can hold on to the money to actually pay for some of the kids’ expenses throughout the year that are not like the basic required mandated things you have to provide as a guardian to the children, which is like, food, shelter, medicine, clothing, I don’t know all the exact list. But you know…

Matt Mulcock:
Like, vacation.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, vacations, like, little Susie’s paying for her own plane tickets to Disney World this year. And her ticket to Disney World and her own souvenirs and her violin lessons and her rugby lessons and like…

Matt Mulcock:
Wow, Susie’s a versatile girl.

Ryan Isaac:
She’s a versatile kid, man.

Matt Mulcock:
She’s a rugby-playing violinist?

Ryan Isaac:
She’s in Jiu-Jitsu too. [0:23:40.6] ____ even better.

Matt Mulcock:
And she’s a Jiu-Jitsu… Oh my gosh.

Ryan Isaac:
Makes her deadly on the field in rugby.

Matt Mulcock:
Holy cow.

Ryan Isaac:
Is that a rugby field or match or is it a pitch? I don’t know.

Matt Mulcock:
She’s beaten people up in the cage and then going to her rugby match and then she gets home and she serenades you to sleep with her violin.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Yeah, deadly combo, Susie.

Matt Mulcock:
It’s a versatile combination.

Ryan Isaac:
But you can make Susie technically pay for her own stuff by running the money you’re gonna use anyway for all those things through payroll. Talk to your CPA. But I’m just saying…

Matt Mulcock:
And it sounds like you’d want to, ’cause Susie sounds like a busy girl.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, Susie’s a busy girl. You’re already shelling out a lot of money. Might as well make that a tax-deductible thing. So, again, I’ve heard a lot of conservative CPAs be okay with this. Talk to yours. But kids on payroll, spouse on payroll. I don’t know if that’s a number on here, but that would be in that same category.

Matt Mulcock:
But that is not on here, I don’t believe. But that should be… That would be part of the retirement plan. We’ll get to that. It’s kind of a strategy that goes along with that. But yeah, I agree. Kids on payroll, minor Roth IRA. Either spend the rest on them or put it into a brokerage account or whatever.

Ryan Isaac:
Augusta Rule. Augusta, I was thinking about the golf course, even though I’m not a golfer.

Matt Mulcock:
It is. That’s what it’s from. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Okay.

Matt Mulcock:
It’s Augusta Rule. Thanks to the Masters…

Ryan Isaac:
What is the history… Why? Yeah. What’s the history there?

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. So, I don’t know the exact years this or when this all started, but this does come from Augusta National in Georgia, the Masters. And so, this was when, again, I don’t know the exact year off the top of my head, but where people would… Because Masters is such a huge golf tournament, people would come in and flood the area to come to this tournament. And so, they created this rule that you could rent your home out for basically tax-free income up to 14 days out of the year. And so, that’s where it came from. It’s people renting out their houses on the golf course or near the golf course, so people can come in and enjoy the Masters. So, there’s actually some interesting history with taxes in golf. If you go listen to… I think it’s the first season of Revisionist History by Malcolm Gladwell.

Ryan Isaac:
Okay.

Matt Mulcock:
He talks about the tax-exempt status history of golf courses in California. And anyway, I only bring it up to say, clearly, golf courses get the most tax advantages. So, some people in the government obviously love their golf.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. There’s some preference there. So, what does this mean for a dentist, the Augusta Rule?

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. So, how this would work in the real world is you own a business, right? It’s a separate entity from you. So you’re an LLC taxed as an S-corp. Yeah. So, you do have to be taxed as a corp of some kind, either S or C. Most clients or most dentists we talk to are taxing themselves as an S-corp. And so, that entity would rent. So, your practice would rent from yourself as obviously the owner, your personal residence for business use of some kind. So again, in real life, this could be like a quarterly meeting. This could be a company party. This could be any sort of thing you want that’s business related that you’re using your personal residence for. You would then go… Here’s some things you want to think about. You want to make sure, so first of all, this is written right into the tax code. So you can look it up, IRS section 280A-G, if you want the real specifics.

Ryan Isaac:
Okay. I was going to ask what dash it was.

[chuckle]

Matt Mulcock:
It’s right into the tax code. So we’ve also talked to several CPAs that are like, yeah, this is in the tax code. So the actual application of the law, there is no gray area, really. Where the gray area comes is, how you’re actually… Like the details, right? So you can’t just pay yourself whatever you want. You couldn’t say, I’m going to rent my house for a company party, you know…

Ryan Isaac:
10 grand a day.

Matt Mulcock:
On December 11th and pay myself, yeah, 15 grand for the day. Though the best way to do this is keep records and go and just find a market rate in your area. So just call a couple of hotels, a couple of conference areas, whatever, and find out what it would cost to rent a home or rent their space and just apply the same fee to yourself and then pay yourself. This income you pay yourself is completely tax-free. You don’t even have to report it.

Ryan Isaac:
It’s tax-free to you as the receiver, but you deduct it out of your business, which is you.

Matt Mulcock:
Yep. Exactly.

Ryan Isaac:
There you go.

Matt Mulcock:
Exactly.

Ryan Isaac:
Cool.

Matt Mulcock:
Okay. Are you ready for number three?

Ryan Isaac:
Yes. So we waited for this. You won’t believe it.

Matt Mulcock:
You can’t wait for number three. Here it is.

Ryan Isaac:
You won’t believe number three. HSA.

Matt Mulcock:
You won’t even believe it. [chuckle] HSAs, health savings account.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Do you find more and more of your clients are utilizing HSAs than ever before or is it still pretty…

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. I’m getting a lot of questions on it for sure. A lot more questions on it.

Ryan Isaac:
Do you… Are the people you deal with on this, do they have health plans that are like, low deductible health plans still?

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. You’re saying, yeah, for sure.

[overlapping conversation]

Matt Mulcock:
And you’re saying, are they looking at switching to high deductible?

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. I just had this conversation a couple of weeks ago with a client of mine who is… Because we just had open enrollment and they crossed the board. So people are going and reevaluating their insurance plans.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
And so, we’re getting questions always that kind of that fall time of year, October, November around this. And people thinking, should we switch from the low deductible to a high deductible and get an HSA plan? So yeah, we get those questions quite a bit, especially this time of year.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Fund your HSAs. There’s a whole world of HSA, what would you call it, strategy? HSA, like investment strategy where people are building quite large balances inside of their HSAs. They’re not spending it on medical things either, because they don’t need to, or they strategically don’t. And they keep piling up the money in there, because you can invest it and then use it later under different circumstances after you’re over a certain age. So…

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, we actually have, I don’t know what I’d want to call this. It’s not controversy. We have differing opinions within our own team of this strategy. I for one, I will mention, I love the strategy of using an HSA just like an IRA. So you put the money in, you invest it, you don’t touch it, you don’t use it. And this works perfectly for dentists, because a lot of times dentists have high cash flows, solid liquidity, access to funds outside their HSA. And the idea is to have that money grow. The HSA is the only account in existence that is triple tax free. So meaning… Or sorry, triple tax benefits. So you get tax deduction on the front end, it grows tax-free, and then it comes out tax-free.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, you’re right. I hadn’t thought about that.

Matt Mulcock:
So I can’t believe that John’s not touting this, like, you’d think he would have mentioned.

Ryan Isaac:
I want to pick up on the HSA, man. But you can’t sell…

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, man. Is this too boilerplate? Maybe this is too boilerplate.

Ryan Isaac:
You can’t put one in a permanent life insurance policy, so there’s not much incentive to talk about it.

Matt Mulcock:
That’s probably it. Exactly. But yeah, so I love this strategy. You put the money in, you invest it just like an IRA, it grows, it grows, it grows, tax-free, and then to your point, HSAs, you can reimburse yourself in years that you didn’t… So, in different years, meaning, you can take money out in a year or for an expense in a year that you didn’t… Or it didn’t happen in that year, right? So meaning, I had a medical expense in 2023, but I reimbursed myself in 2025 from the HSA for that medical expense, that’s great. It doesn’t have to be the same year. And so, you can grow this for 20 years plus to have that money built up for retirement. Again, you’re placing a bet. You’re placing a bet, playing the odds that you’re most likely be using or be needing that money more in retirement, ’cause research will show that the average retiree spends somewhere between $250,000 and $300,000 on healthcare-related costs in retirement. So again, you’re playing the odds that that money is going to be…

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. There for you and used for it.

Matt Mulcock:
There for you down the road and you got a deduction along the way.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. I love it. Number four, it looks like we’re looking at the section 179. That is of course, when you buy something large in the business and then you use the section 179, it’s just a section in the tax code. I don’t know if there’s a dash on that. Matt, do you know? Do you have an update? Is it like a dash, dash A?

Matt Mulcock:
I’m not sure about the dash or the fine print there, but I don’t know. The dash A, sub-point B.

Ryan Isaac:
I liked it on the previous one. Disappointed section 179 does not have its own dash. But yeah, that’s when you, instead of depreciate over a longer time period, you just take it all in one year, which obviously wipes out a big chunk of the tax bill. We were just saying this earlier, buying stuff is not a tax strategy, it’s just a benefit that you get when you have to. But as a business owner, you got to buy stuff all the time. I mean, that is part of the strategy of running a business. So, utilizing that with your CPA, you might find that it is more advantageous to take a huge deduction in one year upfront, which again, Matt, you were saying this earlier, that does present opportunities too for Roth conversions. Maybe forego 401k contributions to make John happy.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. I love it.

Ryan Isaac:
Don’t contribute to the 401k.

Matt Mulcock:
Or do a Roth contribution to your 401k that year.

Ryan Isaac:
Do a 401k Roth contribution. Yeah. I mean, if you do one of these 179, it kind of wipes out a huge tax bill, it does open up some opportunities for outside of taxable… Non-taxable account savings and investing. Talk to you CPA.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. I also mentioned, I think of all of the ones on the list here. I think this is the one where you definitely want to have a CPA that’s proactive, that understands your situation, that understands dentistry. Because I think a lot of times you’ll have CPAs that’ll just jump at the chance to take a massive deduction.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Feels good I’m sure the CPA to be like, no bill…

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. And CPAs are…

Ryan Isaac:
Return.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. Like, oh, I’m not gonna be hated this year. Awesome.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
But the problem is what we’ve seen is if you don’t have a proactive forward-thinking CPA, they’re not thinking about things like, what does this do to your basis potentially in your business? Also, if you are a young up and coming dentist with a newer practice and your chances are, the odds are that over the next three, four, five years, your income is only gonna go up. Well, you may not want to take the 179 deduction in this year when your income wasn’t even like, wasn’t even that high.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. It wasn’t high to begin with. Yeah. You wanna like stretch out those deductions in the future years.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. And you want to have a CPA that’s gonna look at stuff like that. This is why…

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
Some CPAs hate us, because we’ll like, push back on that and we’ll just ask questions. We’re just curious like, Hey, what about this?

Ryan Isaac:
I’ll ask this thing. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. And they don’t like it sometimes.

Ryan Isaac:
Have a conversation with your CPA and your financial advisor. I think that’s one of the most rewarding things to do as an advisor throughout the year. And it is really hard to coordinate a dentist, a CPA and an advisor’s schedule in calendar together. That can be tough.

Matt Mulcock:
Yep.

Ryan Isaac:
But I’ve found it to be very helpful to even go on a group email together and it’s fun to meet people’s CPAs and talk to them more. And then you can coordinate stuff like this through the retirement plan and deductions and conversions and especially in big years where there’s like a practice sale and deductions and purchases and retirement plan contributions. So, have a conversation with all people. Include everyone.

Matt Mulcock:
Just all the people. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Just include everyone, guys.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. And then we started with it, but that was the last on the list was retirement plan. The retirement plan really is as boring as it might be. We say this all the time, like, I’m sorry, it’s not more sexy than this. I’m sorry. I wish I had a better funner answer for you.

Matt Mulcock:
We wish we were sexier. Okay? Yeah. We said it. We wish…

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. [chuckle] Wish we were better looking. We wish we were better looking.

Matt Mulcock:
We were sexier.

Ryan Isaac:
Wait.

Matt Mulcock:
I’ve always been told I’ve got a face for podcasting and here we are, you know?

[laughter]

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. But there… It’s the truth though. Retirement plans will just be the biggest ongoing year over year proactive thing you can do to lower your taxes. I mean, it’s just…

Matt Mulcock:
: And keep the money.

Ryan Isaac:
It’s just the way it is, and actually still keep the money. And I will say not venture into the gray audit prone tax world or the, I got a tax benefit, but I have an investment or an asset that I really wish I didn’t have that kind of sucks and isn’t good for me in the first place world.

Matt Mulcock:
Yep.

Ryan Isaac:
That’s where you end up when you start chasing down tax deductions for the sake of tax deductions, you can end up in one of those two camps. The gray world of auditing tax audits or the…

Matt Mulcock:
Sometimes not so gray.

Ryan Isaac:
Or the not so gray or the gray world of like, yay, tax deduction, boo for the crappy investment. And that happens more often than people think just because you’re chasing down tax deductions.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
So anyway, was there something else? Yeah, go ahead.

Matt Mulcock:
Well, just on that point, I’m just coming back to John’s comment here.

Ryan Isaac:
Okay. I was gonna… I was gonna take it back here. I was gonna go back to the comment and yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
I just love that he claims, and this is… Insurance people always claim this, they always claim there’s some way to like, never pay taxes. Like, lower your taxes now and never pay them later. It’s like, just stop it. Stop it.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
John.

Ryan Isaac:
I don’t think they’re gonna stop.

Matt Mulcock:
Stop.

Ryan Isaac:
They gotta stop. They get paid too much.

Matt Mulcock:
I know.

Ryan Isaac:
They gotta stop. What does is he talking about anyway? He’s talking about just for anyone who’s like, curious about that he’s suggesting something. It’s like the main pitch of permanent life insurance, which is, you put all your money in life insurance in the future after the fees have like, made it go from like negative for 15 years into a positive return territory. Then you loan the money back out to yourself instead of taking the cash. And then you end up not paying taxes again. You end up sacrificing what would be a better investment option somewhere else. And you get a really bad investment for tax deduction. But it’s still not even that simple. It’s still a mess. [laughter] It’s still not… Even if it was that simple, it’s not good. And it’s not even that simple, so.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah, it’s not. And there’s… Yeah. I mean, we could spend another hour on just John’s comment, but…

Ryan Isaac:
Kind of wanted to, but we won’t.

Matt Mulcock:
You know what’s ironic here though…

Ryan Isaac:
We’ll be helpful instead.

Matt Mulcock:
He talks about boiler… Like, he accused… I love that they use the term boilerplate, ’cause it has more negative connotation. Like Oh, this boilerplate strategy.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Be custom be…

Matt Mulcock:
As opposed… Yeah, exactly. As opposed to to just being like, how dare you preach simple, fundamental principles of building wealth like idiots, you fools.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. I wonder if like, you would go on a legitimate health and fitness wellness person and be like, why are you still talking about good sleep and water and…

Matt Mulcock:
Exercise.

Ryan Isaac:
And exercise and walking and movement and whole healthy foods? Why?

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Why are you still talking about this stuff? It’s old.

Matt Mulcock:
Boilerplate strategy of exercise and eat right and get some sleep.

Ryan Isaac:
It’s fine.

Matt Mulcock:
Move your body. Come on.

Ryan Isaac:
It’s fine. This comment…

Matt Mulcock:
Take this pill.

Ryan Isaac:
This comment provided some great commentary to a really common question actually. I mean, dentists want to know why they do deductions through retirement plans now and pay the taxes later. Hopefully that clears it up a little bit. We could do a whole episode, the thing he suggested in the beginning, which again is life insurance in this comment was an executive comp strategy, which usually means that it’s like, deferred comp, non-qualified deferred comp where…

Matt Mulcock:
Weird.

Ryan Isaac:
And they’re pulling out that I’m like, man, again, I just have my own little tiny microscope view of the world I’ve seen so far. But in 15 years I’ve never seen a dentist do a legitimate, like, deferred comp package, like you would see a tech exec. You’ll see tech executives do this. People who are in like millions and millions. They’ll take their compensation in different types of stock options and then in deferred comp plans. Usually like, very wealthy, super liquid, highly paid people who don’t need money.

Matt Mulcock:
Yep. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
Who don’t need money.

Matt Mulcock:
Who don’t need money.

Ryan Isaac:
So That’s the point. It’s like, I’ve just never met a dentist that was like, yes, I will just defer all of my income or such a significant portion that I don’t have a tax bill. And then I’m like, well, what… I mean, dentists also spend more than anyone else in the country. So I don’t know if that’s true. It’s just, they spend a lot of money.

Matt Mulcock:
They spend a… They make the most amount of money that any professional…

Ryan Isaac:
They make the most in the country and they spend…

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. My guess is they spend a lot.

Ryan Isaac:
They’re gonna spend a lot too. So it’s like, there’s a reason why that probably isn’t as helpful. And when the average dentist… When we ran our numbers, what’s the average dentist income right now? Or from last year at least, it was like four…

Matt Mulcock:
It was like, high 4s, low 5s.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. So like, just under five, which is like a lot of money. But when you have a high tax bill and you have a lot of debt from student loans and a business, and you spend more than the average person by like, four times, like, three to 4X, then you don’t have room even at $500,000 of income to just defer it so low that you don’t have a tax bill anymore. Like a deferred comp plan just doesn’t pertain to this type of professional. It’s just not build for that. It’s not…

Matt Mulcock:
It’s really not. And we actually had a meeting with a CPA recently. He was awesome. He came and did a little presentation for us. We call them like, lunch and learns, right?

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
And he said something interesting about this whole concept of like, dentists who, and not just dentists, but we happen to work with dentists. This whole idea of I want to make as much money as possible and not pay any taxes. And sometimes what he does, I’m gonna steal this ’cause I’m gonna… I think it’s perfect. He says, sometimes what he does is, he’ll tell his client, he’ll say, great, I can raise my fees. Right? I’ll raise my fees. They’re paying your fees out of their business.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
And he’s like, I’ll raise my fees $100,000.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Okay.

Matt Mulcock:
By the way, you won’t pay tax on that money. It’s a deduction for you. Do you wanna do it?

Ryan Isaac:
Pay me more?

Matt Mulcock:
And every single time he says, people… Like, their eyes kind of light up, like, oh…

Ryan Isaac:
Oh yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
I’m not gonna do that.

Ryan Isaac:
No. I’ll keep my money and pay the taxes.

Matt Mulcock:
You’ll keep your money and pay the taxes and you’re better off for it.

Ryan Isaac:
You are, you’re better off.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. And being the end of the year, the Happy Holidays tax message, pay your taxes and be happy that you have the income and taxes mean you’re making money. But also do the dozen plus things that you can do as a dentist in taking as many, like, use the tax code to your vantage.

Ryan Isaac:
Yes.

Matt Mulcock:
And use them, communicate with your CPA, communicate with your financial advisor. Use the tax code to your advantage as much as you possibly can, and then move on. And own high quality assets, investments. Enjoy your life. And…

Ryan Isaac:
Most of this is simple and obvious. Sorry, sorry that John doesn’t like that, but…

Matt Mulcock:
Leave nice comments. It’s okay, it’s fine.

Ryan Isaac:
As James Clear says, most success is simple and obvious and doing it for an uncommon amount of time. Right?

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. That’s the key. That’s the hard part.

Ryan Isaac:
Can I tell one more quick story? I’m sorry. I’m feeling very like, stories…

Matt Mulcock:
Keep going. Keep going. You’re feeling verbose today.

Ryan Isaac:
Verbose, that’s the word.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. That’s the word.

Ryan Isaac:
But it’s because a lot of these conversations are happening. But I had a conversation with a client in California. She’s absolutely just killing it. She does incredibly well. Income is super high. And we were talking… This is the best year she’s ever had.

Matt Mulcock:
Cool.

Ryan Isaac:
And so, we were talking and just going over all that, and of course the first thing that comes up is her tax bill. And being in California, she’s paying so much money in taxes, right?

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
But we started talking about it and I asked her, I said like, do you remember your first associate job? Like, you just… Do you remember this? And she’s like, yeah. Her tax bill… So we talked… We put it in context. Her tax bill this year is…

Matt Mulcock:
More than what she made as an associate.

[chuckle]

Ryan Isaac:
Double. What she made or more as an associate in her first couple of years. And so we talked about that. And the way I framed it was like, how cool is that? I know it doesn’t take the sting away from your tax bill.

Matt Mulcock:
No, it doesn’t feel cool, but it’s an interesting concept. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
It doesn’t feel… It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s less painful, but…

Matt Mulcock:
No.

Ryan Isaac:
But she…

Matt Mulcock:
That’s the progress you’ve made.

Ryan Isaac:
That’s… Look… Think about the progress you’ve made.

Matt Mulcock:
Yes. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
That your tax bill is now more than like… It’s like, one and a half, two, three times your income even was when you first started.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Isaac:
That’s pretty freaking cool.

Matt Mulcock:
Or think of how long you hoped for a salary that is the current tax bill you have these days.

Ryan Isaac:
Exactly.

Matt Mulcock:
Yeah. How long did you wait? How hard, how long did you work until you made as much money as you’re now paying in taxes?

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Exactly.

Matt Mulcock:
And which again, like you said, doesn’t take the sting away, but that’s cool context for progress that you’ve made.

Ryan Isaac:
Yes.

Matt Mulcock:
And it needs to be recognized that you’ve made that progress. And so…

Ryan Isaac:
And by the way, dentists out there that hear this, or anyone that hears this like our boy John and says, you know what would be even cooler, if you made that kind of money, you didn’t pay taxes. Stop it. Just stop it. You’re not going to.

Matt Mulcock:
And I would like to eat Oreos and…

Ryan Isaac:
Every day and maintain that bod. Yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
Those chocolate covered Queen Anne Cherries and…

Ryan Isaac:
Wait, what?

[chuckle]

Matt Mulcock:
Those Queen Anne Cherries, you know the Christmas Queen Anne’s?

Ryan Isaac:
Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Matt Mulcock:
Chocolate covered cherries.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah. Okay.

Matt Mulcock:
I would just down those by the truckload. Yeah. And not feel sick or gain weight. That’d be great.

Ryan Isaac:
Yeah, exactly.

Matt Mulcock:
Alright.

Ryan Isaac:
That’s not how this works.

Matt Mulcock:
Thank you, Matt.

Ryan Isaac:
Thank you, Ryan.

Matt Mulcock:
Thank you listeners. Thank you John.

Ryan Isaac:
Thanks John. For real.

Matt Mulcock:
In all honesty.

We truly did. Like I laugh, we were sending it around to our team over the weekend and we were just laughing.

Ryan Isaac:
It provided some entertainment. But like I said, I think that was not the nicest way to ask a good question actually. And so, we appreciate it.

[chuckle]

Matt Mulcock:
But I liked it.

Ryan Isaac:
No, I liked it. So if you have any questions for us, especially the end of the year, or man, if you’re listening to this and it’s just, you know the beginning of the year’s coming up it’s a great time to begin. So give us a call or just go to dentistadvisors.com, click the book free consultation link. We’d love to chat with you. So thank you, Matty.

Matt Mulcock:
Thanks, Ryan.

Ryan Isaac:
Thank you everybody. We’ll drop the boom mics here, put down our headsets and fools are peacing out. We’ll see you next time on The Denstist Money Show.

Taxes